#033. Margaret "Peg" DeLuca Klein '81, Rear Adm, U.S. Navy, Retired - 82nd Commandant of the United States Naval Academy

Margaret "Peg" DeLuca Klein '81, Rear Adm, U.S. Navy, Retired is the Dean of the College of Leadership and Ethics at the U.S. Naval War College in Newport, RI. 

A native of Weymouth, Massachusetts, Rear Adm. Margaret Klein was commissioned in May 1981 upon graduation from the U.S. Naval Academy.

Klein completed a 35-year Navy career in March 2017. As Rear Admiral Klein, she served as the SecDef’s Advisor for Military Professionalism. Klein served as Chief of Staff for the newly-created United States Cyber Command. In 2008 she served as director of operations for the Navy’s Network Warfare Command. In 2011, she commanded an American military force of five ships, 30 aircraft, and over 3,300 Sailors and Marines in combat operations in the Mediterranean Sea. She served as the 82nd Commandant of Midshipmen at the US Naval Academy, where she was responsible for 4,400 Navy and Marine Corps officer candidates. Klein flew in and commanded an aviation squadron and wing.

Klein was the 82nd Commandant of Midshipmen at the United States Naval Academy from December 2006 to June 2008 and was responsible for the military and professional development of the Brigade of Midshipmen. She was the first woman to ever hold this position.

She joins Grant on the podcast and tells the story of what brought her to the Naval Academy in 1977 only one year after the academy began accepting women. 

She shares stories from her time at the academy as a midshipman and her return to the Yard as the 82nd Commandant of Midshipmen.

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Links Mentioned in the Show

Rear Adm Klein's Book Recommendations:
The Undoing Project by Michae

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Grant Vermeer your host is the person who started it all. He is the founder of Academy Insider and the host of The Academy Insider podcast and the USNA Property Network Podcast. He was a recruited athlete which brought him to Annapolis where he was a four year member of the varsity basketball team. He was a cyber operations major and commissioned into the Cryptologic Warfare Community. He was stationed at Fort Meade and supported the Subsurface Direct Support mission.

He separated from the Navy in 2023 and now owns The Vermeer Group, a boutique residential real estate company that specializes in serving the United States Naval Academy community PCSing to California & Texas.

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Transcript

Grant:   0:03
This is your host Grant Verrmeer Naval Academy class of 2017 and I'm your academy insider. It's my goal to be your guide through the Naval Academy experience. By sharing my stories and providing you inside information into the life of a shipment. Academy insider is in no way officially affiliated with the United States Naval Academy. All over the content on Academy Insider is my own and does not reflect the views of the United States Naval Academy, the United States Navy nor the Department of Defense. Everyone and welcome to the academy. Is that our podcast today? I'm joined by Peg Klein, who's a class of 1981 graduate from the Naval Academy. One of the first class is to have women in Annapolis. Peg retired as a rear admiral in the Navy, and during her time as a naval officer, she served as the first female commandant of the United States Naval Academy, which is really awesome. So she's been kind enough to share her time with us to talk about her experience getting to the academy at the academy as a naval flight officer. But most importantly, as the commandant of midshipmen, she shares a lot of her insight about what she wanted to accomplish and what she was thinking about when she returned to the Naval Academy. It's a great episode. I think you guys will really like it checking out. All right. Hey, everyone. And welcome to the academy insider podcast. And Paige, thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. I really, really appreciate it. It's a pleasure

Peg Klein:   1:27
to be here, Grant. Thanks for the invite,

Grant:   1:28
of course. And before we get going today talking about a lot of different topics, if you don't mind taking the time to tell us a little bit about yourself, where you came from and a little bit about your family upbringing that brought you to the Naval Academy.

Peg Klein:   1:40
Sure. Yeah. My dad was a Navy reservist, and he had his private pilot slices, and so I had both the love of flying. I gotta love of flying from him and, ah, love of the navy that I wasn't even really too sure about. So I was the oldest of four girls, and so he took me with him when he went flying, and I was hooked. I'm

Grant:   2:03
a very

Peg Klein:   2:04
young age.

Grant:   2:05
It's fantastic. And as far as I understand it from a near you interview you gave when you graduated high school, the academy still was an all male institution. Is that correct? So you couldn't even apply straight out of high school?

Peg Klein:   2:18
That's right. That's right, is my friend. I was a freshman at Penn seat when my dad for sent me the application and the newspaper article that said the service academies were opening women. I was kind of cool, and I had no idea how historic it. Love.

Grant:   2:32
Absolutely. And so can you tell us a little bit about the story? Then says you're already a Penn State? You're at a great school. What really drove you're motivated you to be like, You know what I want to put in this application and I want to go there,

Peg Klein:   2:43
Yeah, so it's kind of interesting, at least certainly to make right eye. When this was the seventies, this is mid 70. Vietnam drawn down was going down in the ROTC program. I was in non scholarship, was already talking about drawing down, and they said, Hey, we can't really guarantee a commission and I said, Well, I'm not doing this, whether it's RTC or the accountant. I'm not doing this. If this all ends up in 90 days of active duty and then they take their wealth and that was the big driver, of course. Then there's the tuition benefits, which was also a significant driver.

Grant:   3:20
Yeah, absolutely. And when you entered as a ple in 1977 just one year after the Naval Academy started accepting woman into the classes, what were you thinking as a young woman going into this process about breaking gender barriers? Was that even a thought to you going through this? Were you aware and kind of thinking about that factor or you just Hey, I'm going to the Naval Academy. There wasn't much else going through your mind

Peg Klein:   3:48
so I could tell you I grew up the oldest of four girl my dad, my dad and mom, both very equal opportunity minded without ever using those words. When I go to the Naval Academy, all I knew was the law changed. I was allowed to go and I didn't really follow months right this well before the Internet, and I didn't know much about what was going on, whether it was difficult. They're easy for the women who were there. I just knew. Hey, I want to be in the Navy. And so really wasn't too concerned about what was gonna get in my way. Have you got there? And some butthole

Grant:   4:23
said, you know,

Peg Klein:   4:24
I'm chopping, chopping down throughout in 27 companies. Some guys said he owed to come here to get your M. R. S degrees. And I have been in college at that point for two years,

Grant:   4:36
and I

Peg Klein:   4:37
was like a bubble over my head, which is usually expression on my face. Said you've got to be crapping right Life. First of all, I would want to marry you.

Grant:   4:45
Second

Peg Klein:   4:46
of all, I would care like I would do this, you know? So anyway, it's, uh so that was really my first exposure to like, Oh, this is not gonna be a normal

Grant:   4:56
college. Serious? Absolutely. And what's funny is I thought I had a tough please summer, and I talked about it a lot. What was yours like, What was that experience like and how many? How many other women were in the class with you? And was that a factor of not really having many woman around you going through that process.

Peg Klein:   5:16
Yeah. So I mean, it was a time of great change for the Navy. Right time I got there in 77. There were about 80 women on our class and we started with about little over 80 and ended with about 65. And And I have to tell you, I just wanted to come to the Naval Academy to get a commission. And there there were three women in my company when we started out, and we got shuffled around over the four years that I was there. But I wasn't too like I knew. I wanted to fly my one of my roommates with a superstar basketball player and g, you know, she was, and she was straight out of high school. And she's your friend. But her goal was not flying. My goal was like, I want to get a commission and and go flying. And I've already been in college for two years.

Grant:   6:08
Absolutely. Um And so during your time he can meet. You mentioned you were part of the 27th company. What did you do? Were you, like, obviously So you're very interesting flying where there any clubs like there are now about aviation or flying or anything like that. Are there any activities that you were a part of as a midshipman?

Peg Klein:   6:26
So that's a great question, because it brings up what I thought was one of the most important aspects. And now, as I study leadership, one of the most important aspects about the Naval Academy is socialization that occurred. So everybody wants to do whatever they can do to kind of avoid the hardest part. Please. Summer. So I joined the Catholic choir, you know, because you got to have confidence in front on

Grant:   6:48
Sunday morning.

Peg Klein:   6:49
And I mean, it was, believe me, it was nice. I met great people. But you were like, Oh, I can get out of the hall for an extra 30 minutes And, um, I started swimming on like the three person J B 17 right? Because we had an amazing swimmer and piggy Spellman. But, you know, I was not an amazing swimmer. So we did those things to, you know, to socialize, that a great company

Grant:   7:14
Ah, that that that that's fantastic. And I and I love that again. You talked about wanting to pursue a career of naval aviation. You knew you wanted to go there. Were there any times that you doubted that or whether I guess kind of on the flip side. Were there any mentors at the academy other than your father that further increased your interest in wanting to become an aviator?

Peg Klein:   7:34
Yeah. So we had, uh So there were no female aviators that at the academy they had just 73 was when the Navy opens a pilot pipeline of women it And it was until the class of 80 graduated that the N F O pipeline opened up. So there were no female mentor, but I it it didn't really bother me. There were plenty of a beer there, and there are plenty of people interest. Maybe there's no aviation plugs at

Grant:   8:01
the mine.

Peg Klein:   8:02
So you just talk to people about flying and, you know, talk to them about a group of influencers that we had tremendous benefit. Tom, we're POW races 77 78. And so we had people. I got no Stockdale. And, uh, I can't Stratton and a whole group of people who had come to the neighboring countries frequently and talked to us both about aviation in their experience of POWs and had a huge, huge influence on us.

Grant:   8:33
That's that's way cool. That is definitely Ah, fantastic experience. And then, obviously you did. You went in you service. Selected as a naval flight officer. Can you, uh, tell us a little bit about, um, what you did as a naval flight officer? And then, if you have any words of thought about the naval aviation community for any potentially future mids or parents out there that may have a son or daughter moving into the naval flight officer, Naval aviation communities in general, about your time as a naval aviator,

Peg Klein:   9:04
Sure, let me go back. And I'm a Lawrence with our superintendent at the time, So he

Grant:   9:08
was

Peg Klein:   9:08
a prisoner of war. So all these people like he was one of the people who kind of probably attracted the folks coming in. Anyway, my time is enabled. Flight Officer, I, uh I really just wanted to fly, and I didn't know anything thing about anything. Okay, let's start

Grant:   9:25
with that.

Peg Klein:   9:26
And I certainly didn't know anything other than being a pilot. So when I have the naval come, I got to learn a little bit about being a naval flight officer. And then I was stashed for about eight months before I went down the flight school and started down a flight school. And the things I loved about flight school is you know, when you're getting a bachelors degree, there's lots of topic that you need to study that don't necessarily. You don't see how they connect to what you're gonna do for the next five or 10 years, or, in my case, 35 years. Um, flight school was riel, right? They talked to howto a be a communicate navigate, not in that order. And you absolutely understood why you needed to learn these things. And so that was phenomenal. And again, it was in Pensacola, Florida. So it was locked and the aviators down there, the distinct impression you got in Pensacola with people that were there instructing you as a nugget aviator. They love flies. And so that contained in that I had seen my dad that I had gotten from my dad was very evidence and skeptical

Grant:   10:34
that absolutely. And then what was your career past gives me career path that brought you to then ultimately become the commandant of midshipmen. How How did you end up there? And was that any ever? You know, did that ever cross your mind until the opposite opportunity presented itself?

Peg Klein:   10:52
And no, not at all. So the opportunity to be the common gone was a friend emailed me in. But, hey, you know, they're opening up the application process and I, you know, had gone from my initial flying days. And I had a department head and squadron commander and then wing commander. And while I was wing commander in the middle of Oklahoma, of all places, I really enjoyed the flying and I but I stayed in the navy. I came into the Navy because of my love of flying. I stayed in the Navy, the love of people. So when a friend said, Hey, they're opening up the application to be coming down I was like, Hey, that's nice. Why would they want me to becoming that? Because I made 2/3 of my class look good. I was not in the top half of my class

Grant:   11:38
academically,

Peg Klein:   11:40
but I learned so much. Been able Chinamen ahead. Great son ships there that when they asked for people to interview. I was like, Sure, why not? The Navy's let me do all these other interesting things. Why not try that?

Grant:   11:53
Yeah, absolutely. And you end up getting selected, and you had to say, Okay,

Peg Klein:   11:59
it took me two time.

Grant:   12:01
Really? What made you want to apply again? The second time was that

Peg Klein:   12:06
I didn't

Grant:   12:07
Okay, I had

Peg Klein:   12:07
no desire to apply the second time. I, uh, had, uh I'm a groom's got select, did the first time, and he

Grant:   12:14
had

Peg Klein:   12:15
such a better choice. And I, um and then the neighborhood Comey said, Hey, you applied last time, you know, would like to come interview or you get. And I was kind of like a have kind of moved on, and they were in their own inimitable fashion. They were like, No, you don't understand. They

Grant:   12:29
call them orders on we

Peg Klein:   12:31
want to come interview again. And so I did. And I was CD on a carrier street group, and I had lots of times makeup, so I was like, No, I think this is what I'm supposed to be doing. This they're like, interview. And and it was a lot of naval aviation hierarchy that actually supported me both times I applied, But really, we're the people who encouraged me. The second time I said no. We really think you'd be a good And they were Naval Academy. Glad that they, um you know, I guess they thought that I had more tow her, you know, I guess.

Grant:   13:06
Yeah, that's a crazy story. That's that's Ah, the fact that you just that you still ended up there as commandant. And for anyone who doesn't maybe understand Ah, what we mean when we use the term Commandant, can you briefly explain what your role waas in the Naval Academy as the commandant of midshipmen?

Peg Klein:   13:25
Sure. You know, like any other college, there's a dean of students at the Naval Academy, right? Because it's such a unique environment. The dean of students is responsible Not just for like, keeping you occupied with fun things to do right

Grant:   13:41
or too

Peg Klein:   13:41
bad academic, that extra Cherie collectively. But we're really responsible for the professional development. Be responsible for the midshipmen 24 7 So all the way from Leeds, summer to graduation, and that was coordinating with, like, five other Captain. So I went there is a captain, and there were five other captains that I had to work really closely with. That was a lady doctor sizing collaboration.

Grant:   14:07
Yeah. And how did you feel about coming back to Annapolis? Were you excited to make your way back? Was it weird or even kind of surreal to return back as the commandant of midshipmen? How was that feeling?

Peg Klein:   14:18
I have to tell you that for the first couple of months I kept having this nightmare that they were gonna figure out something. Is my graduation requirements that I'd missed or

Grant:   14:26
that mess ethical? I

Peg Klein:   14:28
would like when I first got back. Guys thinking, No. They're gonna figure out that there's a mistake I knew of no mistake, but I just It

Grant:   14:35
was

Peg Klein:   14:35
very, very surreal.

Grant:   14:37
After a

Peg Klein:   14:38
little while, I kind of got used to it, but it was still surreal. Especially when you're standing out there for parades or, you know, whatever the official ceremony is staying there next, Superintendent of a life. Oh, that person. When I met a man back there, it was really old, and I was like, Ok, I guess I'm really old,

Grant:   14:55
right? That's funny. Uh, so as you as you return then and you're doing your turn over. So you show up in your doing turnover and you're kind of getting the lay of the land. Did you notice any significant differences from that initial step onto the yard from your experience when you were a midshipman? How do you notice any big changes?

Peg Klein:   15:18
Yeah, I, uh first of all, they had air conditioning and

Grant:   15:21
Bancroft all

Peg Klein:   15:23
day. I think they got that the nine days. But you know what your your fears of the student is? You're a user. My experience is the commandant, where you're making all those things behind the scenes happen and tryingto those advocates from the chip in and then at the same time, make sure that they were being professionally developed. When I got there late 2006 early 2007 we'd bid in Afghanistan and then by that pie point in Iraq. So we'd been there since 2001. So I think the big deal was I got their post Vietnam. When I got back as commandant, students were volunteering and we were at war. So the students seem very much more patriotic than I remember being mean. I was patriotic. Um, but they were also they also seems so much smarter. It seems so much smarter. So they use so much more about the Navy,

Grant:   16:22
you

Peg Klein:   16:22
know, at least somewhat you could read. So that was with a big, big difference.

Grant:   16:28
Yeah, absolutely. And so when you now finally go and you take command of the common not of the brigade of midshipmen what was your vision or goal? What would What did you want to accomplish in your in your tenure there as the common on what were your main focus is for the brigade of midshipmen.

Peg Klein:   16:45
Yeah, I guess they wanted, you know, we take very seriously the whole developing into the Morley mentally, physically, and I saw very, you know, the mentally and physically that seems toe make sense and be all pretty measurable. But the professional development part that how what you're doing on a day to day basis in Bancroft Hall, I wanted to make sure that there was a connection with what they would be doing in the fleet. And so that was my goal is to connect them intimate, connect the brandade with what was going on in the fleet.

Grant:   17:23
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's something that we definitely ah did now. So I have a guest is just a generic question for you. Do you know if there was Was there professional knowledge when you were a midshipman, and then was their professional knowledge when you were the commandant of midshipmen in terms of for the pleads?

Peg Klein:   17:41
Yeah, there was yet? Yeah,

Grant:   17:42
okay.

Peg Klein:   17:44
And so, but it was kind of interesting, right? Is the please. Like everything you needed to learn was kind of in Reef Point.

Grant:   17:50
Yeah.

Peg Klein:   17:51
And now you start with three points. And most midshipmen, right? Most motive and candidates, like, have a copy of re

Grant:   17:58
pushing.

Peg Klein:   17:58
They've got that all member. I

Grant:   18:00
got to

Peg Klein:   18:00
get there for standing there. Please. Summer going? What the heck is says?

Grant:   18:04
Okay, So just

Peg Klein:   18:06
like the amount of God right that goes around probably has also changed because it could be so easily perpetuated around.

Grant:   18:17
Interesting. Um and, ah, one thing that I saw and I think it's obvious that you have Ah, great pride and respect of the Naval Academy. And I read a quote that really intrigued me from injury. You interview you gave, uh, which is that? He said I want to make sure that when midshipman graduate, they're ready to serve as Ensign's and second lieutenants. We kind of talked about is that professional development? And you want to say I want them to be ready to make a difference. And I want people to notice a difference between an academy grad and everyone else. Can you talk a little bit about what you wanted, that difference to be? What did you want for them to get out of the Naval Academy experience? That would really separate them in a positive manner?

Peg Klein:   18:56
Yeah, I can't tell you that. I knew exactly what that loss, but I think now studying leadership, both for my own studies on the doctoral student, which I like. That was kind of a crazy journey,

Grant:   19:10
But I

Peg Klein:   19:11
also study leadership at the Naval War College, and I think what the big difference is we've been able to come. You have four years of socialization, and that's four years to absorb the Navy culture because you know the instructors, the faculty members, they bring the Navy, sir, or the culture from their particular specialty. They bring it back and they share it with the chipping. So not only do you have that immersion? But you're also, you know, in the company, right? Cos when I was coming up, we're like 100 1020 people. You have that immersion. And those people are your family. That is very similar to what happens out in the fleet right company or your wandering that becomes your family. And And I think that a big difference maker and helping you be comfortable from day one in your squadron Ship. Submarine? Yeah, Never. Your platform is

Grant:   20:09
fantastic. Um great. Well, thank you for that. And I guess I have one more question. Really About now. Kind of on the back end of your time as a common off midshipmen. Did you ever realize or think about it? Reflect on potentially you're influence and being the first female commandant of midshipmen did that. Did that factor ever cross your mind that you were a Trailblazer in that sense as the first female to be the calm, anonymous shipment? And do you ever does that? Does that fact ever cross your mind, or do you ever think about, um, that side of it?

Peg Klein:   20:44
Um, it was one of the reasons I almost didn't apply to be common Dawn, and then a friend said, You know, you could make a difference and so it's hard to turn that challenge down. While I was there, it became obvious to me that the class of 2011 the year I would they're like, for good or bad, right? Um, I didn't really care so much what they thought about me individually, but the class of 2011 there, please. Here they only knew a female commandant. And when you look at it and there was a commandant conference room and it's got pictures of all, the previous commandant said from General Allen as the first Marine and Booth room, the first African American to me you're like, yeah, the last 10 years. The pictures don't look anything like they did the 100 years fire, so it didn't make a difference, and I felt how I lead. But when I stepped back and trying to be objective about it, you're like, Oh, crap, that's like the responsibility.

Grant:   21:46
Well, that's great. That's and that's fantastic. And you went on to continue on, Put on Rear Admiral. Then you ended up retiring at the rank of rear admiral, and you talked a little bit about now, being a candidate for a PhD. What else are you currently doing now, after your time, the Navy And how is your experience and navy kind of helped you out in that transition and what you're doing today.

Peg Klein:   22:12
Yeah. So the transition was interested because the first time in 35 years I had a had a vote in what I was gonna

Grant:   22:20
do next. So

Peg Klein:   22:21
usually I'm accustomed to kinda having, ah, menu of choices. And then I had a boat. So I, ah, friend of mine, who was a company made at the Naval Academy, is the president of the New England Center and home for veterans up in Boston. And so, you know, he asked me onto his board, and I have taken up a couple other nonprofits award, uh, do that and then piecing leadership and FX on the demon readership in ethics at the Naval War College, one of two postgraduate institutions in the Navy. And so so I love eating, but I love I love the part of teaching that take the scholarship and applies it. So it's not scholarship scholarship safe that there are plenty of folks to do that, but I love scholarship for how it can expand your horizons beyond just your own experience. That's it, then, that shell. I love it.

Grant:   23:17
Well, that is fantastic. And I heard Newport's not a bad place to be, either, Right?

Peg Klein:   23:22
Newport doesn't.

Grant:   23:24
Yeah, not bad when it's no longer orders and it's your choice. And you had a place like Newport. Could be words, kid. Um, great. Well, thank you so much. Do you have anything else before we jump into what I call the lightning round of questions, which I ask all of former midshipman to come on in to you? Do you have anything else that you would like to share about your time in the Navy or your time it's common in, or anything else that you think might be applicable to the audience of potentially future candidates or parents and loved ones of midshipmen?

Peg Klein:   23:54
Yeah, you know, the sense of giving back there were so many mid when I was comin down. There was so many Mid Joe needed someone to their time, not because anyone told them to, not because they got some credit towards the higher class ranking. They just did it because it was the right thing to do. That's one of the things that separates the Naval Academy and today's midshipman from her half previous generations way. Talk about the greatest generation. But I have to tell you how incredibly impressed. I watch that all the women who donated Ton uh uh, the needy causes and you still see it advertised, you know, uh, stable economies, Facebook page. And that is just super impressive then. And I feel like it's always been a responsibility to give back the people who paid my salary for 35 years.

Grant:   24:49
So yeah, I

Peg Klein:   24:50
think that's really important. An important part of our education,

Grant:   24:54
Absolutely. And I actually have one more question out of curiosity is that obviously haven't been one of the first classes of women at the Naval Academy to then coming back roughly, you know, 20 plus years after graduating to be the common, not and seeing that incremental step of development of the Naval Academy. What do you think the future forward of the Naval Academy is? Do you see it changing and adapting it all are currently moving forward or you see, it's saying staying roughly the same institution that you were a part of.

Peg Klein:   25:22
So that's Ah, that's a really interesting question, because really interesting. Um, I think the strength of the Naval Academy is its ability as an institution to evolve and anticipate what the needs of the future Navy are. Excuse me, That is the strength, and it's really funny. A lot of times you get e mails or letters from previous Lum, and they're like, Why'd you change this? Why'd you change that? And and so you know, kind of indicating alum free, especially somebody more senior alum, just really important to help understand that the things that are going on the Naval Academy now are anticipating future needs.

Grant:   26:07
Yeah, that's what I could. I could only imagine the kind of things that people potentially love to complain about. About a change, the Naval Academy and how how many comments he ever seem to found that that's that's exciting. Um, all right, well, thank you so much for sharing that and before or not before, let's let's do it. You ready to jump into the lightning round of questions?

Peg Klein:   26:29
You bet they're

Grant:   26:29
all right. First question is, what is your favorite spot on the yard

Peg Klein:   26:35
Memorial Hall Memorial Hall. Oh, my gosh, it's so inspirational. Uh, yeah, that's what I retired and

Grant:   26:43
sweep

Peg Klein:   26:43
the place of reflection. And, um and it's a place to remember, right? You look in the walls and there are names of people who lost their lives in service to their country on. And, you know, we certainly grieve all the losses to our class. That was all

Grant:   27:04
without a doubt and moving down just a couple sets of stairs beneath more hall right into King Hall. What was your favorite meal from your time as a mature man? Or is the commandant Ah, favorite meal in King Hall?

Peg Klein:   27:18
So, as a midshipman, I have to tell you, this is not these in my food priorities, right?

Grant:   27:23
Vanilla

Peg Klein:   27:23
ice cream with Tina

Grant:   27:24
fiber like the best. Why would

Peg Klein:   27:27
I want to eat protein when I could have vanilla ice cream with a little bit of peanut butter on me?

Grant:   27:32
Absolutely. So you guys so was it like the soft serve machines that you had down there? Was it like I scream.

Peg Klein:   27:39
It was hard pack ice cream that they made on our dairy like we had our own cows that in gamble.

Grant:   27:45
It's cool. Yeah. Oh, that. Well, that's fancy. I never got hard pack of the academy whatthe for late

Peg Klein:   27:54
again?

Grant:   27:55
Absolutely. Um, fantastic. Right. So a lot of people who listen to the economy instead of pockets have people reach out to me. Ah, and ask about book recommendations. Well, I love to bring on other people, uh, like yourself and ask him, What's your favorite book and what book would you recommend? Someone based on your own personal preference towards it?

Peg Klein:   28:15
Yeah, I am. So I would be glad you asked me that question ahead of time because there's probably, like, five books

Grant:   28:22
that I would recommend.

Peg Klein:   28:23
But let me just let me name probably, too. I love because I I read about leadership for fun because that's kind of the warp

Grant:   28:30
claims I am. I

Peg Klein:   28:32
love fun and clinic, Liza Receipt laugh because you studies people

Grant:   28:37
and

Peg Klein:   28:38
I've had a chance to

Grant:   28:39
chat

Peg Klein:   28:39
with Simon over the last two years, and he really is. He doesn't want to make the world a better place, but he wants us to understand people I

Grant:   28:48
don't want

Peg Klein:   28:49
motivates people and our obligations people, the other one is Michael Lewis's newest book, Be Undoing. Five Decks. I am a student of Daniel Kahneman and Amos Diversity, and Michael Lewis does a great job telling that story. So those are the two books that I'd say again, condiment in Traverse City studied behavioral economics and kind of help us understand how we're not always rational is like I think we are. You are killing

Grant:   29:19
Fascinating. Yeah, all right. And now, to make a turn to a little bit more of the sentimental looking back, um, so the first question is, who were what. So either personal experience that you had is the biggest influence to your leadership style today that you can trace back to your time is a midshipman.

Peg Klein:   29:36
Yeah, I have to tell you, those Pune W's light from Admiral Moore and Dick Stratton from my hometown of no cell feel they absolutely influence us in ways we didn't even understand till we kind of trace back. Why? Why do you do that? And so yeah, absolutely. Commander Galanti, Paul Galanti was a battalion officer when I was there. So you have those people as a group and like they concentrated at the Naval Academy likely because they were still getting care abut the says it's so easy for them to pop in on us when they were in hell. Um, yeah, but had a tremendous influence.

Grant:   30:19
Wonderful. And now moving on to I'm sure there were a lot of tough times at the academy, but also a lot of great times and we don't talk about the great times. What was your favorite memory from your time as a midshipman?

Peg Klein:   30:34
Yeah, I got to imagine service selects tonight

Grant:   30:37
because originally

Peg Klein:   30:38
had we've only had 15 warfare plot. So we add for the 65 months, there were 5% village five pilot billets and find NFO billet and and they at the time they were They called us out by class rank and you went and you went down to lunch tables and pick up Well, I got the 15 of those 15 slots and and, you know, NFO with the last lot to go. I wasn't qualified to be pilots and, ah, because I had no PRK or LASIK at the

Grant:   31:13
time. I

Peg Klein:   31:14
have to tell you kind of realize basis of that dream of being able

Grant:   31:18
to

Peg Klein:   31:19
go fly with probably probably it. It kind of made everything else worthwhile.

Grant:   31:26
That's wonderful. But what happened to the the other women, then? Did they not get a war for spot or what was the what was the result of that?

Peg Klein:   31:36
So, like, there were each community would offer up a few spots, like my backup plan was I was gonna be a meaty meat talk officer.

Grant:   31:45
Yeah, because

Peg Klein:   31:46
I was in oceanography, Major. They went flying corps. We had ah, woman diver.

Grant:   31:52
We had

Peg Klein:   31:52
a bunch of things that wherever they could take women that works, their restrictions wouldn't impact community management. So we did all kinds of crazy

Grant:   32:02
thing. Yeah.

Peg Klein:   32:04
Great. I just Yeah, I was really, really fortunate.

Grant:   32:08
Is there a

Peg Klein:   32:08
couple of people who are just like now? I think I might want to do this. I was like, No, you don't understand this.

Grant:   32:13
Why seems to think that flat? Because you

Peg Klein:   32:18
thank you might want to do it.

Grant:   32:19
Yeah, absolutely. Or not. Dream. This is my dream. And okay. Ah, wow. Fantastic. Um all right. And then the final question I have for you is what advice would you give to someone who may be interested in the naval Academy. So potentially a high school student about what to consider when trying to decide if the Naval Academy is the right decision for them for their college choice.

Peg Klein:   32:42
Yeah, so I get asked that question fairly frequently, you know, because my colleagues all have kids and kids who are no. Somebody who's thinking about going to the neighborhood. Come in.

Grant:   32:54
The

Peg Klein:   32:54
first question I always ask, You really need to understand why you want to enter the Navy Armoring for that is top one. Figure that out, and if you don't like, have a really good reason that starts at your core, and you should like, kind of go back and think about that. After that, I would look for like minded people. So in other words, I was all in. I went to the Naval Academy after two years in college because I wanted to be all in. If you want to be all in great our PC, there are some amazing Artie program RTC programs around the country. If you want to be all in and you want to do this, you want to live this life. This leadership is learning by immersion. Naval Academy is the place to be

Grant:   33:45
absolutely Well, thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to join us today. I can't express enough how much I appreciate you fitting us into your schedule. I really appreciate it.

Peg Klein:   33:55
It's great to talk to Grant. Great to meet you.

Grant:   33:58
Absolutely. On again. Yeah. Oh, of course. You have anything else you would like to leave the audience with her or you. Good.

Peg Klein:   34:05
I think I'm good.

Grant:   34:06
All right. Perfect. All right, well, I hope you all really enjoyed that episode. If you're looking for the links to purchase the books that Andrew Klein talked about, that head to the show notes you take a look. Otherwise, please leave me a review on Apple podcast and be sure to subscribe. And as always, if you're ever looking for more content, make sure to go to my Facebook page Academy insider of our website. Www dot academy insider dot com For more information about the MMA gym and experience in Annapolis, my name's Graham premiere. I'm the academy insider and thank you so much for letting me be your guide to the Naval Academy