.png)
The Academy Insider Podcast - Your Guide to The Naval Academy Experience
The mission of Academy Insider is to guide, serve, and support Midshipmen, future Midshipmen, and their families. Through the perspective of a community of former graduates and Naval Academy insiders, this podcast will help you learn about life at the United States Naval Academy in Annapolis. Through our shared experiences, Academy Insider guides families through the anxiety and frustration caused by lack of understanding, misinformation, and confusion. This platform is designed to better relationships between midshipmen and their loved ones. This podcast is not affiliated with the United States Naval Academy, the United States Navy or Department of Defense. The thoughts and opinions are exclusively those of your host and his guests.
The Academy Insider Podcast - Your Guide to The Naval Academy Experience
#104 Comparing NROTC vs. The Naval Academy: Which is Right for Your Path?
Exploring ROTC and Academy Experiences
Are you considering a career as a naval officer but unsure whether to pursue the Naval Academy or ROTC path? In this episode, we explore the key differences between these two commissioning routes with Lisa Hillhouse, an Air Force ROTC graduate and former Air Force Academy admissions staff member.
Navigating the ROTC vs. Naval Academy Decision
We discuss:
- • The structure and components of NROTC programs
- • Scholarship opportunities and application processes
- • Balancing military training with a traditional college experience
- • Pros and cons of each path to commissioning
Key Insights on ROTC Programs
- • Flexibility to choose your college and major
- • Opportunities for a more "normal" college life
- • Smaller, more intimate training environments
- • Potential for part-time military commitment during school
Naval Academy Perspective
- • Immersive, 24/7 military environment
- • Access to a wider range of military mentors and leaders
- • Structured lifestyle with less personal freedom
- • Built-in prestige and extensive alumni network
Making Your Decision
Ultimately, both paths lead to the same destination - becoming a naval officer. We explore how to determine which option aligns best with your personal goals, desired college experience, and long-term career aspirations.
Whether you're set on the Naval Academy or exploring ROTC options, this episode provides valuable insights to help guide your decision-making process. Join us as we compare these two paths to naval leadership and discover which might be the right fit for you.
The Vermeer Group is a residential real company matching military families with trusted real estate teams across the country. If you have any real estate questions at all, please text Grant at (650) 282-1964 or email grant@thevermeergroup.com
To stay most up to date with Grant, Naval Academy updates, and real estate insights, follow him on LinkedIn
The mission of Academy Insider is to guide, serve, and support Midshipmen, future Midshipmen, and their families.
Grant Vermeer your host is the person who started it all. He is the founder of Academy Insider and the host of The Academy Insider podcast. He was a recruited athlete which brought him to Annapolis where he was a four year member of the varsity basketball team. He was a cyber operations major and commissioned into the Cryptologic Warfare Community. He was stationed at Fort Meade and supported the Subsurface Direct Support mission.
He separated from the Navy in 2023 and now owns The Vermeer Group, a residential real estate company that matches service academy families with trusted real estate teams all across the country. Text (650) 282-1964 with any real estate questions.
We are here to be your guide through the USNA experience.
Connect with Grant on Linkedin
Academy Insider Website
Academy Insider Facebook Page
If you are interested in sponsoring the podcast, have an idea, question or topic you would like to see covered, reach out: email podcast@academyinsider.com or text Grant at (443) 951-3064
Hey everyone and welcome back to the Academy Insider Podcast. This is a fun episode about ROTC versus the Naval Academy and specifically about the application process, things that may be a little bit different, different context to consider when you're thinking about applying to an ROTC program versus the Naval Academy, because here's the reality of the situation. Although you may end up in the exact same spot at graduation which is the beauty of both programs as an officer in the Navy or Marine Corps, the experiences are going to be way different like way different, and I can't emphasize that enough, and so I'm really excited to have Lisa Hillhouse here on the Academy Insider podcast. She's ROTC graduate herself, student Air Force officer, spent time at the Air Force Academy on the admission staff, so she's seen completely both sides. Now she runs her own like college consulting business and I think this is going to be the perfect person to talk about the similarities and differences between ROTC and the Naval Academy and what factors you need to be considering and thinking about so you can make an educated, well-informed decision when it comes to pursuing either or both possibilities when it comes to commissioning. So let me know what you think.
Speaker 1:I hope you get some great information out of this episode. I appreciate it. Have a good day and have a good listen. All right, everyone, and welcome back to the Academy Insider Podcast, lisa. Thank you so much for taking the time to join us today to talk about alternative pathways to commissioning. Obviously, this channel is a lot about the Naval Academy, but I wanted to have this opportunity to talk about ROTC programs and everything that comes with that choice that you could make in a pathway to commissioning. So I really appreciate you being here. If you don't mind just taking a little bit of time to introduce yourself, give a little bit of background about yourself, your time in the military and what you're currently doing now.
Speaker 2:You bet Grant. Well, first off, I'm a huge fan of your show, so thanks for doing this mission and for having me. So I'm a proud Air Force ROTC graduate. I earned my commission through College of the Holy Cross and I served active duty for nine years in the Air Force and then 17 in the Reserves. So I came in not knowing exactly what I wanted to do with the military.
Speaker 2:I was originally thinking Foreign Service Corps when I started at college, but when I learned about Air Force ROTC I kind of saw that was a chance to do a lot of the same things live and work overseas, help people. Started off as a logistician, especially doing wartime planning and mobility in the first Gulf War, From then moved into personnel and then I had a chance to do a special duty assignment teaching Air Force ROTC at Berkeley, which got me on this college admissions path. From there I went into the reserves and was at the Air Force Academy for 15 years in admissions, so helping run operations in Northern California and doing those school visits, nomination boards, interview preps for kids, working with all the other different branches. And after I left the Air Force Academy I started my college advising practice. So this is my 31st year in admissions and my 11th year as an educational consultant, and about half the kids I work with are service academy or ROTC bound, so all different branches all different kinds of kids.
Speaker 1:No, that's fantastic and I mean this is gonna be awesome to get your perspective and opinion on this from the incredible amount of experience and breadth of experience that you have in this from quite literally being at the Air Force Academy to being an ROTC student, to helping with college admissions in general and working with students have in this from quite literally being at the Air Force Academy to being an ROTC student, to helping with college admissions in general and working with students trying to apply to all these different things. So that's amazing and I genuinely appreciate it. And for anyone who listens to the Academy Insider Podcast, they're probably pretty familiar with what the Naval Academy is. But again, we always encourage people that again, the end goal, whether it's the Naval Academy or not, is to pursue that commission in the armed services, and the ROTC programs are an incredible opportunity to do that as well. So, if you don't mind, just kind of starting us off with what is the ROTC program specifically like NROTC, and what does that pathway look like?
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. A lot of people don't realize that most officers come through ROTC, you know, looking at the different branches. So you are a full-time college student at a quote-unquote civilian college, so not a military academy. So it could be a public school, like the University of Maryland. It could be a private school, like the University of San Diego. You are pursuing whatever major you want. You can be on a scholarship program, so that's one that you competed for your senior year of high school, or you can walk onto the program and there's some pre-coordination with that, but then you are competing for a scholarship while you're in college and then students in the program.
Speaker 2:There's three components, and so there's the academics, so you're going to have weekly classes during the school year, so it could be the evolution in naval warfare, naval seamanship, you know international relations and leadership, depending on the branch. Then you have physical fitness training. That's two, three mornings a week before school, and then the last part is the leadership lab. That was always my favorite as a cadet and having been an instructor, because you are mimicking what you'd see on like a naval base and you're going to have, you know, your battalion commander, your XO, and you're doing all these different roles in either an upperclassman leadership role or underclassman, followership and teamwork role, and just seeing, like, what does the Navy or Marine Corps offer and how can you develop as a leader? And so you know we can go more into that, but that's like the three components. And then at the end of your time in college you graduate, get your bachelor's degree and then you're commissioned into the Navy or the Marine Corps and go active.
Speaker 1:Okay, and for one of these things again we talk a lot about at the Naval Academy, you don't make your decision for service assignment, about whether you're going to be Navy or Marine Corps, until your senior year, your first year at the Academy. Is that similar? Do you have to make a decision between Navy or Marine Corps earlier on when it comes to ROTC?
Speaker 2:That is a great question. So for Navy, if you apply for the scholarship, you have to track Navy or Marine Corps, right? If you walk onto the program, you start with the one that you want, but, like the Naval Academy, it is competitive to get into the Marine Corps, right? If you're in RRTC, you can switch your first year because your curriculum is similar, but then you're going to have more hands-on training. Like, if you're going the Marine path, you're going to have a Marine officer, you're going to have a senior NCO who's doing that Marine training. So, yes, and then, in terms of what career fields you're going into, you're going to find that out your senior year of college.
Speaker 1:Okay, really interesting. And you mentioned again these kind of like three main categories or criteria of the experience of NROTC and what they're doing At the Naval Academy or Service Academy. It's your whole life right, like there's no break. There's no kind of like, oh, I do my military time and then I go back to being like a civilian at a civilian institution, just going to college. What does the overall time commitment look like from the perspective of an ROTC student, again, just with this comparison being the Naval Academy, which is it's all day. Every day You're in uniform, every day you wake up. Every day You're technically active, duty, military, as you are a student at the service academies. So what does that look like in comparison? What's the time commitment from an academic year to summers for an ROTC student?
Speaker 2:Sure, and the summers is a really important part. So it's going to be very different. You know your first priority is being a full-time student and doing well and there are academic requirements that you have to fulfill. So even if you're a political science major, like I was, you're going to still take calculus and physics and so on. So definitely, you know, need to be a good student During the week. That PT could be two, three hours a week, leadership lab could be two hours and your academic class will be about three hours.
Speaker 2:So that itself is not a huge commitment, but you're going to also have whatever your role is. So if I was in charge of those cadets it was about a 20-hour-a-week job, but normally it would not have been that kind of commitment. That's more like the senior people In Navy or ROTC. Each summer you're going to have a cruise. So you're talking generally. Four weeks Could be a little bit shorter. It is going to mirror what you do at the Naval Academy so that after freshman year you're going to be paired up with an enlisted person seeing what the Navy is like as a follower team player, that next summer with a junior officer.
Speaker 2:So moving into more of that leadership role. And then that third one. You know the community you want to go into, but there's other opportunities students can do, like Project Go, where you can spend your summers learning a strategic language, or you can go to another country in the summer for a language immersion or also during the school year. So it's really going to vary with that. But, like I have a midshipman at Villanova on a scholarship and he did his cruise this summer and then he was in London interning with a financial institution, so he's definitely able to manage that civilian and that military training. So it's nice because, yes, you're in uniform some days a week but you can still do Greek life. You could be in a musical band, you could be living off campus. There's just a lot more of that freedom with your time.
Speaker 1:What if you wanted less of that freedom of your free time and more military related stuff? Are there other opportunities to again like the Naval Academy? We're all doing drill, we're all participating in some of these trainings. Like, does that exist in the ROTC world? Can you do that? How does that work? Like, where can you involve yourself to get more of a military experience if that's like what you're wanting?
Speaker 2:Sure, and one thing I forgot to mention was with Navy ROTC that freshman year in the fall you're doing a little bit of tutoring too to help get you through those hard classes. So there's two things that you can do. So each ROTC battalion is going to have its own clubs and activities, like maybe there's an aviation club, a drill team, color guard, different things like that. So different ROTC branches like Army or Air Force, slash, space Force, they have people going to Sandhurst doing that military competition. They have cyber clubs. They have all sorts of different activities. But unlike the academy, some where kids who want to go, maybe like more special forces, there's going to be specific training. Sometimes the ROTC units can have some of those training and mentoring. But that's a little more. On the students, you know initiative, but besides the outside clubs and activities and service groups and community service time, you can also look at senior military colleges and that would be more intense than ROTC but less intense than an academy. So I don't know if you're familiar with those ones, but some real big ones are Texas A&M and Virginia Tech, and so that's where you have a whole bunch of students, thousands who aren't in the Corps of Cadets and then students in the Corps and those kids are wearing uniforms during the school day they're living in dorms with other cadets.
Speaker 2:Senior military colleges run on an army layout with rank and history and tradition. But if students want a commission then they're also in Navy or ROTC or Army or Air Force in those programs. And then you have some smaller ones like the Citadel VMI University of North Georgia and Norwich. So those students do have a more immersive environment and the smaller ones are led by military officers or retired military officers. So what's important about senior military colleges? Students can be in the Corps but not be on the commissioning track. They just want that leadership, that camaraderie that connection.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, super interesting. I always thought that was funny. We played basketball, we would play the Citadel or VMI basically every year and we'd go down there and I'd be like witnessing these kids like again going through the military training, going through rat summer, whatever they call it, and some of them weren't even ROGC and I was like you're going through that and you're not even going to commission at the end, like that's crazy.
Speaker 2:And living in those really austere dorms and things like that. I send kids there who are maybe not ready to commission, like maybe they have a medical thing they're working through or they're just not sure about the military commitment. But that is, you know, a challenging experience versus going to San Diego State and living by the beach.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, 100%, and along those lines again. You mentioned these senior military colleges, but also just other civilian institutions that have ROTC programs. How many colleges actually have an ROTC program? And how do you find that right, like if you're someone who's like, oh, I want to do ROTC, but I really want to go to this school, like where's the balance? How do you find out if a school has an ROTC program and like, how does that function generally across the board?
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. The Naval Service Training Command has a website and it's easier to Google NROTC school list. That's going to get you directly where you need to go. But one challenge with Navy versus Air Force or Army is that they have the smallest amount of battalions or college programs, whereas Air Force has double that. Army has more.
Speaker 2:And so you could be at a school like Berkeley, where I was and you have. If you're a midshipman there, great, you're doing everything on campus. But if you were at Stanford University or Davis you would be at Crosstown, so you would come to Berkeley one or two days a week to do your training. So 66 host schools and then a couple dozen crosstones are there. But if you go on that NROTC school list you can see who hosts. So it is a wide range of schools. So you have very accessible schools for most people, like you know Old Dominion, arizona State, norwich.
Speaker 2:So again, public or private schools. You have the harder schools to get into, depending on your major and where you live, like a and m boulder. You know rpi, and then you have those reach elite schools for everybody, like ucla. You know vandy yale again, sometimes there's some crosstown. Sometimes it's a little more limited but you are applying to the college that you want to go to or colleges, and then you're also applying for the Navy ROTC scholarship. So it's not just like one application for both.
Speaker 2:And one thing that's really cool is I always have my students informational interview with the recruiting officer at the battalion and getting to know them, letting them be an advocate for the student and if the student's a good fit for the program and also a competitive student for the school, in some cases the units can advocate for them in admission.
Speaker 2:You know it's not going to make the difference if you weren't going to have a good chance of getting in to start with, but they, the units, can talk to you about admissions timelines, how to apply, like early action, early decision. You know when to apply for that scholarship board to kind of increase your chances. So definitely doing that scholarship application. But informational interviewing, because with the Navy they're a little different. They're a full tuition scholarship for four years but you tell them the schools you're applying to you apply to those for the major. You tell them and then if you get the scholarship, navy's like great. You know you're going to Boulder for aerospace engineering, so you need to make sure you apply to Boulder and hopefully got in for that?
Speaker 1:No, okay, it was super interesting. So this is again. This is a side of the world that I have no idea about because I didn't apply for any ROTC scholarship, so I was going through it and you mentioned again these are things that you're going through in high school, et cetera. So do you mind just breaking down a little bit further about the scholarship program option and benefits, especially when it comes to this? You know qualifications that are needed, application components, what people are looking for, like how do you go through this process as a candidate who may be interested in an ROTC program?
Speaker 2:Sure. So I'm not going to lie, the Navy ROTC scholarship takes the most work to apply for. Okay, army's a little less work. Air Force is less work than that if you're. You know students who are looking at other ones.
Speaker 2:So for Navy ROTC something that's unique, and this is also applying when I say Navy, I mean Marine ROTC as well you are doing the application, you're starting it online. It opens up in April every year. So if you're a rising senior, it's open now and you're going to get connected with the coordinator. So this is going to be an enlisted recruiter who this is one of their additional duties and they're going to be walking you through that process. So, like an academy, you're going to have to do a physical fitness test, but it is a different test. It's not the cfa that coordinator can give it to you. You're going to need letters of recommendation. Like the academy, again, they're going to help you with that. You're going to need official transcripts and test scores. You're going to need to do some essays. So really put time and attention into that. You're going to get all that information together demographic information, resumes and then, when your application is complete, you're going to get all that information together demographic information, resumes and then, when your application's complete, you're going to interview with an officer at a unit, so it could be the recruiting officer, the unit commander, et cetera. You're going to usually go to the unit that's closest to you, but if you've been informational interviewing with the other battalions you're considering that's again going to make you a stronger applicant. You're going to know more for your essays, you're going to know more for your interviews and then you're going to go to a board.
Speaker 2:What's kind of challenging about Navy ROTC's board is that they're going to limit how many applications come to a board that are viewed at that time. So they'll take all the applications, but once a board is full they're going to push you to a later board. Fortunately, navy has typically 10, 11 boards a year scheduled. They may not use them all, but the first one is going to be, like this year, it's October 13th and so the information is getting in before most of the early action deadlines for students.
Speaker 2:It does take a week for the board and time for the info to come, but if you don't meet a certain board there are a lot of other ones. For other branches. There's way less boards, so those deadlines are more stringent of when you have to get things in. And for Navy, you either pick again, like I want to go to the Navy track or the Marine track with your application and they're looking for minimum grades and test scores. But, like the Academy, the big focus is are you a leader of character, you know? Can you handle the academics? What leadership skills or traits are you bringing in?
Speaker 1:Question for you now specifically again we keep using, like Navy track, marine track that falls under NROTC, which again makes sense, naval Academy. Again the Navy has Navy and Marine Corps. Does the training differ if you're a Marine option versus a navy option? Like, are the marines kind of put through a separate or different pipeline of training or something that's more intense, or is it generally the same?
Speaker 2:but then summer trainings are a little bit different than they go to marine corps specific things yeah, they're kind of starting off with like an intro to big navy and what's going on surface, surface warfare, navy leadership, and then they are tracking with their academics and their leadership training. But as a battalion they're there together and so you will have that officer NCO on the Marine side doing that training and mentoring with them, and then again they're going to have their own summer training. That's going to differentiate a little bit more. So, yeah, it's definitely competitive to get into. At most units Marines are going to be, like you see at the Academy, maybe 25, 30% of the class. I've seen units where, like, they're 50, 50, and that's pretty unusual.
Speaker 1:Right, that's fair. It is funny to me because, again, we do combine Naval Academy, rotc. These things do combine, which means you could have Marine Corps leadership or you could have Navy leadership, whether you're a Navy option or a Marine Corps option, and that piece is always like it's hilarious to me because there's so many times where your Naval Academy experience could actually be a Marine Corps Academy experience, depending who you're leading your company officer and senior enlisted leader. At the Naval Academy you could have a Navy helicopter pilot and like a Navy submarine chief who were like your you know your leadership, your mentors, yeah, and another company they may have like a Marine Corps gunnery sergeant who is just like a drill instructor at Parris Island who came to the Naval Academy, and like a Marine Corps infantry officer, and your experience is way different, like way different.
Speaker 2:And all the ROTC branches will use both officer and enlisted personnel for training and also to help run that unit. If you're looking at a Navy battalion too, they try to have a flight officer, you know, a submarine officer, a SWO, et cetera, to just have that variation. Like these are the communities and get to know more about them too.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, amazing. If someone wants to like, if they have questions, actual tangible questions about the process, where should they reach out to you at? Because we're going to again, we're going to shift this conversation a little bit more to some high level stuff and I know that there's a million and a half like concrete details and process things that people may have more questions about. Where should they reach out to you if they have questions about that?
Speaker 2:Sure, so go on my website. It's Hill House, college Advising Hill and House, and dot com. And then on there there's information. There's a service academy ROTC page with links to all the ROTC programs, all the academies, the senior military colleges. One thing that's cool on that website there's a media page and there's several pages of articles, podcasts, webinars I've done or been on, and just a lot of free information about making yourself competitive for these programs. But also on the first page there's a counseling link. They could always schedule like a complimentary console and you know I'm really passionate about finding my replacement in the different branches and so always happy to do a free meeting with people.
Speaker 1:Love it. Well, thank you for that. Because I do want to spend the rest of the time of this conversation talking about the trade-off of going ROTC versus a service academy. Because, again, right, wrong or indifferent, there's no, like it doesn't exist, like it's just a different experience between going ROTC or service academy. Because, at the end of the day, like we're talking about, we're going to end up at the exact same spot, right, like, whether you go to the Naval Academy or whether you go to ROTC at you know, name your college.
Speaker 1:When you both graduate, guess what? You're going to show up as an O-1 at your first command and be in the exact same spot and so Same pay. All that, right, what's the difference? How do I choose, right, how do I pick between a service academy or an ROTC? And this is just going to kind of be a free-flowing discussion at this point about the trade-offs, the benefits, the drawbacks, the pros, the cons, et cetera. And I guess I'll just turn it over to you as someone who actually went through the ROTC program, what do you think some of the benefits are of choosing an ROTC program versus a service academy?
Speaker 2:Sure, I think there's so many benefits and I think there's no right or wrong path, right, I think some kids would love an academy and really thrive there. Other students don't need that intensity, they don't want those majors. Maybe they're not super athletic, maybe they just want a different experience, right. And so it's asking yourself what do I want to get out of college? Right. And so for me, with ROTC, I was able to change my major. You know you can do that in an academy, but you know you're limited in your amount of majors you know, at any one academy.
Speaker 2:You know you have that ability to live off campus. You have that ability to have a job, to be in Greek life. When I taught ROTC I had students doing all that.
Speaker 2:I had some married cadets as well or cadets who were already married, who had kids. I also had kids like in the marching band, kids on competitive travel teams. You know a lot of different things that you wouldn't think ROTC, you know, cadets or midshipmen would do For me, like I love those summer training programs. Like one summer I got to go to Langley in Virginia and have two F-15 flights and then work in an Intel shop and I wasn't going to be pilot focused, so that was a super exciting thing for me, definitely one of those highlights. I also, you know, made friends for life and so my unit was 125 cadets. We had 20 officers in my commissioning class.
Speaker 2:So I'm still in touch with many of those and, honestly, like, my longest, closest friends are those people that I met in the Air Force and served with. So you do have some of those overlapping themes, but you do have that flexibility. Like what if I want to change colleges or majors? You know, if you want to study nursing, you can't do that in a category, right? Maybe you want to do Russian and cultural anthropology? Those options could be limited, right? So, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2:And then I think too, like in that summer, maybe I want to, you know, study abroad or go you know, work someplace, but ROTC cadets and midshipmen are also, you know, doing summers at the Pentagon and they're working in engineering research labs for the military and they're, you know, working in hospitals, interning, so they're still getting that military training but they could kind of decide how much or how little you know I want with that and I think that there's that beauty in that like being exposed to lots of different majors, lots of different kids. Like the climate and culture of Brown is going to be different than the Naval Academy Just by virtue of who's allowed in right, like the number of international students and so on, how many kids can come from one state versus another.
Speaker 1:It's a. It's a little bit more of a pick your own adventure, right, like you're saying.
Speaker 2:I think that's a great way to describe a little bit.
Speaker 1:You have a little bit more control over how you want the experience to be right, like the resources still exist. That if you want a very heavily like a military opportunity, and there there are people there that you can talk to, and like choose to be your mentors and be around them all the time, and like take advantage of some of these school programs, but at the same time, if you want it to be just like a little part-time thing and you go do your training one to two times a week and then, like you go live a normal college life, like that's, that's totally fair. Right, that's totally fair.
Speaker 1:There may be a little more partying opportunity, a little bit more of a normal life and a normal college experience, right, and I can't lie as a service academy graduate, as someone who went there, like your life's not normal, like you don't, you're not a normal person. And again, there's some beauty to that. And then there's also a little bit of like. There's some beauty to that and then there's also a little bit of like, looking back, like man, I kind of wish I would have had a normal life. I wish I would have had fun, right, and so there's, you know, there's certainly some trade off to that and I just think it's. It's really interesting, because I would almost use the comparison in this point of like it's almost like a part time 1099 contractor role versus like you are a W2 full salaried employee of the United States Navy and they own you, right. And I think that piece is interesting because correct me if I'm wrong Like when you're an ROTC student, you are a reservist. Is that like technically, your rank while you're there?
Speaker 2:Right. So I was going to say if you have a scholarship you're going to get a military ID card, a CAT card, so you're going to have access to those things on the base, like BX. Commissary, you know things like that. If you are not on scholarship, then you're competing to get a spot to continue in the program. So anyone who's eligible for the program who doesn't have a scholarship can walk on their first year. Some people start as late as their second, but earlier is always better. And then if you get a scholarship, that's like your contract to commission. You know in that fiscal year that day and time. So students can stay in the program and have a contract but not have a scholarship. So they can serve one year less time. They also don't have, like, the calculus and physics requirements because they're not on scholarship and they have a little more flexibility with their major. I would say Navy and Air Force really care about STEM majors, so there's going to be more money in the scholarship program for that. Army and Marine Corps are more flexible about your majors and so just, you know something to throw out there. Space Force also kind of STEM. You know leaning, but yes, you know lots of different majors and options.
Speaker 2:You do have a rank, I think it depends like usually E2 or E3 while you're in ROTC. So that freshman year, say you go with a scholarship and it's activated, you have that whole year to decide. Do I want to go, you know, navy or Marine Corps? So maybe you went to Stanford. You have that whole year to decide. Do I want to go Navy or Marine Corps? So maybe you went to Stanford, you did Marine ROTC, you decided this wasn't for you. You would let your ROTC commander know you'd finished out that year and then I'm not coming back to start my sophomore year and so you're not going to owe anything If you're not on a scholarship. You have those first two years to decide. But once you come back with a scholarship as a sophomore or come back, you know junior year, that's when you've committed.
Speaker 2:Like I do want to earn a commission, I do want to go active duty. So it's a little bit different timing than the academy, but also it's not that, like you said, that full, immersive, 24-7 experience. And so sometimes people are like I just don't need that intensity, you know, or I don't want it or I'm worried about that. Like I want to go to med school. I want to make sure I have really strong grades right and kind of talking about med school for a second Navy ROTC in the last few years started a med school tracking scholarship as well. So you know the military needs doctors, especially the army, if anyone's listening. So you know again, they can still apply to. You know, do some graduate programs or work after, but just a lot of different opportunities. And I've also seen kids too who are like my parents went to Michigan. I just want to go to Michigan, right, but I also want to be an officer. So again, that just gives you that other experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that piece is actually really interesting too. Is that, like you get to pick your alma mater right, like if there, if there's something that's really important to you, there are other ways to still be an officer in the United States Navy or Marine Corps without having to again go the service Academy route. Like there's so many factors that are important to people. This is an individual choice and the individual decision. You should do what is most important to you and there again, they are very different experiences and so kind of picking what you want most out of your college experience. So I think it was a phenomenal way to put it, which is what do you want most out of your college experience? How do you want your four years to go? What do you want most out of your college experience? How do you want your four years to go? Because that puts a massive perspective to the experience at large.
Speaker 1:Because, again, just to put this in perspective, right, like at the Naval Academy, when you're there, it's never ending, it's nonstop, it's your full life, it's everything about it. You're standing watch, you know, from 2 am to 5 am on a Saturday. Like standing there, like you're getting the full, immersive experience. There's no running away from it, there's no escaping it Like it is what it is Right. And then you know on the flip side, like again at an ROTC program, you're going to be a normal college student for the majority of the time and enjoy life, have fun, party, be a part of Greek life, get all these experiences, make incredible friends, be all over and I think maybe what's a really unique, interesting piece is learn a little bit more like how to adult, like how to do normal life stuff, like when it comes to off-campus housing and actually having a lease and managing your personal finances and paying for food Right, cooking for yourself, doing your own uniforms and paying for food Right Cooking for yourself doing your own uniforms Right, Exactly you don't get that.
Speaker 1:At the Naval Academy we kind of joke a lot, but we are babied. I mean there's so much stress, it's a very hard experience, but we're babied. They provide food for us every single day. They do our laundry Again, we have our uniform that we have to every single day. They do our laundry right, like we. Again, we have our uniform that we have to wear every day. We live in Bancroft Hall all four years. We don't have to worry about anything, right? And so when it gets out to the real world of quote unquote like adulting and having to get your first lease or buy your first home, take care of your food budget, like do all these things like you. Just, you just never had to do it before. Right, buy a car, get insurance, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:So I think you do have more of that real world experience with ROTC, especially when you know we have former you know airmen and sailors on our program, or people who are married and have kids and their college experience is very different. Right, then a single person, you know who's a cadet or a midshipman. But I think too, yeah, you know you're going in, everybody should be going in regardless of their commissioning source, like humble, eager to learn, right, giving that 110%. But it is nice to have that ability to have more flexibility, like if I don't want to have morning classes, I don't have to have it. You know, if I'm better in the afternoon, maybe I could sleep in some morning, some semesters. So, yes, you can decide the intensity that you want it. And there is.
Speaker 2:I was kind of mentioning, like ROTC, scholarships. You know, for Navy it is full tuition for the four years but it also includes a book stipend and a monthly stipend as well. And Navy ROTC, whether you have a scholarship or not, a big part of reaching out to that unit is there's new student indoctrination. So this is going to be a three-week program up at Great Lakes, so where basic training is for the Navy and you know that's where mids are getting exposure, like what is the big Navy like, and that gets them ready to be a mid when they get to their units. So even if kids don't have a scholarship, they can work with their coordinator and that unit to get that first orientation and that just gets you up to speed, and Navy is the only one that does that. Air Force and Army will do like the orientation when you get there and then additional summer programs.
Speaker 1:And it's interesting again, you're mentioning like going to Great Lakes to get a little bit of this exposure. Some of these college campuses are small and I assume some of the you're mentioning like going to Great Lakes to get a little bit of this exposure. Some of these college campuses are small and I assume some of the you know ROTC programs are smaller and there's less people. In average, how many military staff are there at an ROTC program? Is it a singular ex-owner commanding officer and a senior enlisted leader? Like are you interacting with three to five people who are actual active duty military members? Like what's that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's going to vary. So if you went to Texas A&M one of the biggest units it's going to be a lot larger. But if you're at Yale, you know you're going to have a commander, you're going to have the XO, you'll have at least one other officer. So typically three, four officers in a unit, one of them ideally being Marine officer, you know, marine senior NCO, and then usually an admin person and maybe a retired military person who handles some other supply, you know, and coordinating issues. But again, there's units that might have six or seven officers because they're so large.
Speaker 2:So it's also picking. Like when you want to go to a school, especially the more elite schools, they could be smaller units because they're hard schools to get into, right. So you have to say like, do I want to be at Auburn? That's big and large and has a lot of opportunity to excel. It also has a lot of competition for the things that you want Right. Or do you want a smaller, more intimate unit? So there's all ranges and sizes. You know, like you talked about too, like at the academy. You know you're working hard, rotc, same thing, working hard, playing hard. But what you can do is if you're at a big school like Rutgers or University of Maryland or University of Arizona, you're going to have this smaller community. So in a sense it's like a fraternity would be, you know, maybe more of a service kind of fraternity, but it makes a big school smaller, whereas if you look at small colleges, you can't make a small college bigger, right, but the reverse is true.
Speaker 1:No, it's really interesting. Again, I love these because it's just providing perspective to some of these young people about what the experience may be like and kind of. The reason I asked that is. I think this is actually, in my opinion, again, it's going to be personality dependent. For some people that may be a pro right, for me that's a drawback right. And the reason I say it is like what I love about the service academies and what I really appreciated about my time at the Naval Academy. For anyone who's listening and trying to make this determination decision is that some of these programs there may be three, four, five, six officers right, or or people that you may not connect with. Some of them. You may not. You know, like, again, there'll be your leadership, you'll, you know you'll go through it, but you may not have that like connection with one of them where you're like this is going to be my guy, like this is going to be my mentor.
Speaker 2:And I've had this professor for a long period of time because they will rotate out as well, and so they do, you know, and they have one for like the plebs, like what would be your plebe here, right, and each year you have a different person, and so they really are there to mentor, like. That was one of my favorite parts, you know, of ROTC.
Speaker 2:I was at this conference recently and they're like why do you do this work? And I said for me it's gratitude. And the speaker was like that's an interesting answer. But I was a first gen college student and I didn't have like that social, emotional, financial support for college. And I walked down to ROTC because I was recruited by another cadet and she saw my leadership in my school and like there was no turning back, like not only did I get the financial support but more importantly, like I had people who believed in me and were like kind of grooming and mentoring me for that future. And so that's why I do this.
Speaker 2:I think it's so important that we have someone who sees something in us and can kind of guide us toward what those dreams are, especially if it's something you know, being a military officer, which is such a game changer, you know, whether you're in five years or 25 years, right. So yeah, you will have those mentors. And the older, you know, cadets and midshipmen are great mentors too, and when you do these summer programs you're meeting different people that you know could be pivot points in your life too.
Speaker 1:Oh, a hundred percent, and I'm glad you found that, and that's like incredible. Right Again for me. Again, this is maybe my biggest and this is the Homer in me. Right Again, I have a bias of the service academy, right, Is that, you know, what makes the Naval Academy or a service academy really special in my opinion is, quite literally, the density of the amount of high quality leaders in the Navy and Marine Corps, right, Like we don't have five or six officers, we have about 300 to 400 who are on staff, they're in your company, they're in your living space. You have a company officer, you have a company senior enlisted leader, you have a battalion officer, All of your professors are 05s and 06s that are military or retired military.
Speaker 1:Your ability to find that mentor, one who really you connect with, someone who's really going to invest in your life, the opportunities are ample and I think that piece is really interesting because, again, it may not be your company officer or company leader at the Naval Academy, but there's one down the hall who is a Marine Corps officer or who is a Navy pilot or is like someone that you can look up to, resonate with, emulate with and want to learn from. And again, it's just in the comparison. This is like a thing that I want to point out as people are making decisions. Is that like if you go to an ROTC program, you may have five or six and guess what? That person may be incredible and you may find your perfect mentor and that's awesome? I just again the density that exists at a service academy. The opportunities are ample and you're going to find people who are going to invest in your, in your life for sure, Right For sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and, and I think too, like when I was in ROTC, there were a couple officers that I just adored, and you know there was one here or there that wasn't my favorite. But I think that's also like being out in your branch, right. You have some commanders who are amazing and others that you know could be a little bit better in some ways, right, and so I think it's you know, you learn more from the leaders who aren't great leaders, right, but I do think that, yes, you don't have that size of that leadership but with people kind of coming and going.
Speaker 2:And for me, the three and a half years I taught at ROTC, I'm still in touch with like more than a dozen of the cadets that I mentored and now like they're retired from the military, they're wing commanders and I don't know how all that time went by, but like they'll still talk about things we talked about in class and that relationship. So I think it could kind of transcend that time that you're there too.
Speaker 1:But, yes, we want the best people like teaching at the academies or ROTC, you know, hands down, no, absolutely Kind of the last topic I want to touch on, to kind of wrap this up again, when it comes to someone trying to determine whether they want to apply RGC or Academy or both, or they get into both and they have to make a decision Right. Right Is the idea of college not being just a four-year decision but a 40 plus year decision based on the again, the ripple effect of choosing to go to a certain institution, Right? And I'd love to turn it over to you just to talk about, in your opinion, what you've seen from people about the impact of your college choice and how people should just be processing or thinking about it. Right, Because, again, it's not right, wrong or indifferent, it just is right. And I'd love to pick your brain a little bit about, again, the alumni network. You're going to be a part of the brand name or prestige of a college, a perceived prestige right, and how that affects people.
Speaker 2:Sure, there's so many things you could say about that, but I would say, when you're looking at colleges, let me start with the civilian side it needs to be a good academic fit for you, right, like do you want to be a big fish in a small pond? Are you going to have peers to motivate you? It needs to be a good social fit so you want to see yourself connecting with these people. And it needs to be a good financial fit. And rrcc is a great way of making an expensive school because we have schools that have hit a hundred thousand a year. A financial fit. Know, you want to say like I would say, a great student is going to do well, no matter where they go. But am I going to have more opportunities at some schools based on my major, the alumni connection, what they're well known for? So you know, if you want business, look at an accredited business school. If you want engineering, are they better accredited? So definitely, you know, do your thinking there? But also, like visiting a school is really important, like going to summer seminar, going to candidate visit, weekend and other visits. But talking to students, doing that, research, seeing, do you see yourself there? You know, I think yes, like at the academies, you have that prestige, you have that giant built-in network, right, like a lot of people say, it's a hard place to be, but a great place to be. From right it's definitely easier. You know, you lose some of that memory of how hard some things were as time goes on. But two, I think give yourself some grace so I say this with parents with, like how you manage that process with your kids. It should be student driven for admissions. But also sometimes students start and they're like all I want to do is go in the Naval Academy and then they get in, but they also have a Navy ROTC scholarship and they got into their other dream school, like Notre Dame and Notre Dame is my number one turndown for Navy and vice versa, like in all the years I've been doing this. And sometimes kids are like you know what? I thought I wanted to go to the Naval Academy, but I see Notre Dame is really focused on service and I could be in service in the civil engineering program there but also in the Navy after or something like that. So sometimes kids have changed their minds, you know. Sometimes it's reaction to world events or politics or changes in different places, but sometimes they're like maybe I just want a regular college experience, but with the benefit of ROTC. Especially after COVID I saw that a lot too.
Speaker 2:So you know, if you get an ROTC scholarship you do accept it. You have a certain time for that, but if you get into an academy you can always turn down the Navy scholarship right and so and for both. You know, like May 1st is when you have to let all your colleges know if you're coming or not for seniors. So sometimes kids are kind of agonizing at the end, even the ones who were so committed, who did all this research. So go with that gut check too. But also one last thing if you apply to an academy, don't get in and you really want it, I would walk on to ROTC.
Speaker 2:Or if you have a scholarship, take it, because ROTC can help you get a nomination from the superintendent of the college and the academies are saving space. Like you know, the ones that have ROTC programs are saving space for current cadets and midshipmen who reapply. So of course you're starting as a plebe, right, you don't get any time off for good behavior, but it is a great option, you know. And sometimes kids reapply and they get an offer for an academy and sometimes they go. Sometimes they're like you know what, I'm really happy here and I'm going to stay at Maryland, you know, and stay in Marine ROTC. So there's no bad choice. It's like what's the fit for you, you know, and what will you look back on?
Speaker 1:and be happy with your decision, love it, I think, yeah, tldr too long, didn't read too long, didn't listen to the conversation. That sums up the 45 minute discussion, which is whatever seems to be the right fit for you. What you want to study, how you want your experience to be, is what it is, because, at the end of the day, you're going to end up in the exact same spot, with the opportunity to lead sailors or Marines by going RFC or going to the academy and, at the end of the day, again as a as a homer of the Naval Academy again. I just think there are some special benefits, which comes down to the fact that everything that we talked about, which is that the experience is less fun, is that it is a horrible place to be, and I talk a lot about the power of the midshipman experience being the fact that you become someone who handles the hard moments of life better, right, like you become someone who's used to dealing with chaos and stress and pressure in difficult times and you're able to handle those. So that way, when you get to the fleet, you're able to deal with your own problems and you're able to deal with the problems of a lot of your sailors and Marines right, exactly Grit and resilience, and I love that piece. But at the end of the day, you can still develop those exact same things at an ROTC program.
Speaker 1:And so you know, one way is not better than the other. One way is not the right path. They just are their own respective paths and you should choose the one that makes sense for you and what you want most in your experience. And so, again, if anyone's listening to this and you have questions, please reach out to Lisa. She'd love to answer anything that you have, especially as it comes to the actual application process, trying to figure these things out, working through actually discovering some of these programs. Please reach out. My job is always just providing a little context for the decision and hoping that these kinds of conversations open your brain to the fact that these experiences would be very different. They're very different pathways, even though they end up in the same place. And if you ever have any questions about the Naval Academy experience, please feel free to reach out to me, because it's what I love talking about. But I appreciate it and, lisa, thank you so much for your time today.
Speaker 2:It was my pleasure. Thank you for doing this.
Speaker 1:Of course, all right to everyone listening. Thank you so much. Reach out if you have any questions. Otherwise, I hope you liked it, enjoyed it and learned something during this time. If you did, please feel free to like and subscribe or leave a comment about the episode. We really appreciate to hear your feedback about everything and continue to make Academy Insider an amazing service that guides, serves and supports midshipmen, future midshipmen and their families. Thank you.
