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The Academy Insider Podcast - Your Guide to The Naval Academy Experience
The mission of Academy Insider is to guide, serve, and support Midshipmen, future Midshipmen, and their families. Through the perspective of a community of former graduates and Naval Academy insiders, this podcast will help you learn about life at the United States Naval Academy in Annapolis. Through our shared experiences, Academy Insider guides families through the anxiety and frustration caused by lack of understanding, misinformation, and confusion. This platform is designed to better relationships between midshipmen and their loved ones. This podcast is not affiliated with the United States Naval Academy, the United States Navy or Department of Defense. The thoughts and opinions are exclusively those of your host and his guests.
The Academy Insider Podcast - Your Guide to The Naval Academy Experience
#095 A Global Perspective: The Olmsted Scholarship Experience
Discover the transformative power of cultural immersion through military service with submarine officer Sean Fitzmaurice. In this episode, Sean introduces us to the Olmsted Scholarship Program a prestigious opportunity for military officers to study abroad, gain language fluency, and immerse themselves in a new culture while remaining on active duty.
This unique path has shaped distinguished leaders and it continues to prepare the next generation of globally minded military leaders.
What Is the Olmsted Scholarship Program?
The Olmsted Scholarship Program selects just 15–20 officers annually from across all service branches. Scholars receive:
- One year of intensive language training
- Two years studying abroad in master’s-level courses taught entirely in that language
- $10,000 per year in travel grants, encouraging regional exploration and cultural immersion
- Family support, including stipends for spouse language training
The result? Officers return not only with advanced academic and language skills but also with a deep understanding of global perspectives critical for leadership in today’s interconnected world.
Sean Fitzmaurice’s Journey
From Naval Academy Brigade Commander to scholar in Estonia, Sean shares how the Olmsted experience reshaped his leadership style and worldview.
- He and his family took advantage of travel grants, averaging trips every other weekend throughout Europe.
- He learned firsthand how living abroad changes the way military officers think about strategy, engagement, and diplomacy.
Why Olmsted Matters for Military Leaders
Olmsted isn’t just about earning a degree or mastering a language it’s about building leaders who can think globally and act with cultural understanding. The program seeks officers with strong command potential and develops them into leaders ready for complex international challenges.
If you’re curious about unique military career paths or ready to expand your own, this episode is a must-listen. Learn what it takes to apply, what the commitment looks like, and why the Olmsted Scholarship might just be the most life-changing chapter in your service.
The mission of Academy Insider is to guide, serve, and support Midshipmen, future Midshipmen, and their families.
Grant Vermeer your host is the person who started it all. He is the founder of Academy Insider and the host of The Academy Insider podcast. He was a recruited athlete which brought him to Annapolis where he was a four year member of the varsity basketball team. He was a cyber operations major and commissioned into the Cryptologic Warfare Community. He was stationed at Fort Meade and supported the Subsurface Direct Support mission.
He separated from the Navy in 2023 and now owns The Vermeer Group, a residential real estate company that specializes in serving the United States Naval Academy community with nationwide consulting and connection.
We are here to be your guide through the USNA experience.
Connect with Grant on Linkedin
Academy Insider Website
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If you are interested in sponsoring the podcast, have an idea, question or topic you would like to see covered, reach out: podcast@academyinsider.com.
Hey everyone and welcome back to the Academy Insider Podcast. You're going to get a great insight into another really cool program that exists in the armed services and that's the Olmstead Scholarship Program. Super awesome opportunity to learn a new language, get to travel abroad, study in a foreign country and get that true cultural immersion that'll help you in your time as a military officer, and so I think this program is incredible. I'm joined by Sean Fitzmaurice, naval Academy grad, olmsted scholar himself. He studied in Estonia and now he's the XO of a submarine, and so we're going to get a ton of discussion from his time as a midshipman in the brigade commander, some interesting insights there into a ton about the Olmsted scholarship program. So two things. One, if you're only interested about learning about the Olmsted scholarship program, sweet, no issues. Skip to. About the Olmstead Scholarship Program, sweet, no issues. Skip to about the 30-minute mark, because we're going to have some fun discussions about his time as a midshipman leading up to it. The last half of the episode is really where you're going to get that deep dive info into the Olmstead Scholarship Program. And then the second thing is again everything that we talk about on Academy Insider. Here, the opinions and views expressed by Sean belong solely to Sean and do not necessarily reflect those of the Department of Defense or its components, and so you know we're just two dudes here sharing some stories and sharing some really cool insight into an incredible program that exists within the Department of Defense. So make sure to check it out, let me know what you think and I hope you have a great day. Thanks day. Thanks.
Speaker 1:Before we jump in, I do want to highlight that Academy Insider is powered by my for-profit business, the Vermeer Group. We do real estate consultation and connection across the country for service Academy families. So if you're thinking about buying or selling a home, I would love if you reached out to me. It would support me and support Academy Insider and I'd love to get to talk to you about real estate as well. So thank you so much. Let's jump into it.
Speaker 1:Hope you enjoy the episode. All right, hey everyone, and welcome back to the Academy Insider Podcast, sean. Thanks so much for taking the time to join us. Today Should be a fun conversation. We're going to run through your time at the Academy and kind of really diving deep into the Olmstead Scholarship, which is a really cool program that a lot of Naval and Marine Corps officers get to take advantage of. I just don't think it's very well known, so I'm excited to talk about that. But before we jump into the topics of the day, if you don't mind just giving an introduction to the audience about who you are, where you grew up, a little bit about yourself, how you ended up at the Academy and some about your life and Naval career since then.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. Hey, grant, I just want to start. Thank you very much for having me on, and I do want to extend a sincere thank you to what you do as military spouse as well. I want to make sure we got that in there.
Speaker 2:You know, was not a force university but I'm a Naval Academy grad, so been together since 2007, 18 years and really so. Currently I'm the XO on the USS West Virginia, a ballistic missile submarine, down in Kings Bay, georgia, and this tour has really brought to light how powerful a capable military spouse and supportive family can go. So thank you for all of the force, multiplication and empowerment for your wife while she's out on deployment, so it's really appreciated.
Speaker 1:It makes a huge impact to the military Well thank you First off, I will take that as a thank you. So, for anyone who is listening, and my wife is actively on deployment and it's weird, right, like it's hard and I, you know I did, I did four submarine deployments. I've been out and about and you know, when I approached this I think I overestimated how like I just I just felt I was like, oh, I've been on deployment before, I know what it's going to be like, I'm going to be totally okay. You know it is what it is.
Speaker 1:Being on this side is really different and it's really hard, right, and I was like you know I was, I was going, I was like, oh, the, the, the goodbye, like that last moment I was like I'll be okay, cause, honestly, and it's probably isn't that healthy, but like I've become numb to some of those goodbyes, like that actual moment, just cause I've done it so much.
Speaker 1:But when I got home that afternoon, like she flew away in the morning, but I got home that afternoon and like sat on my couch and I was like, oh my gosh, like I'm going to be by myself for the next seven to eight months, dude, that hit, right, that hit. And it's just like it's weird, cause my life stays the same. I'm in my normal life, where I'm so used to having her there, and then it's not there. So genuinely thank you and a huge shout out to all the military spouses and I appreciate that call out because, yeah, keeping a strong family and spouse engagement is crucial to sailor mental health as well, and kind of like being able to focus on your job knowing that back home is taken care of as well. So thank you and back to you.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, yeah, great. So I was born in Springfield, illinois. I grew up in Hingham, massachusetts. I have. The key to this story is I have two older sisters. They're four and five and a half years older than me. So with that age gap and having two powerful, competent sisters, I did whatever they told me to do.
Speaker 2:That was kind of the way I aspired to, how I wanted to grow and develop. So when I was in eighth grade or a freshman in high school, my oldest sister was at Notre Dame and she went to the Naval Academy Foreign Affairs Conference. She attended that from South Bend, came over to Annapolis and I think she spent six straight months after the Naval Academy Foreign Affairs Conference talking about how great of an institution the Naval Academy was.
Speaker 2:And as an impressionable 14, 15-year-old kid. I was like, hey, that sounds pretty awesome. One of my goals as I was going through high school was to play college soccer. Ideally, if I could be at the Division I level, that'd be awesome. Division III I was just interested in going somewhere where I could continue playing soccer. And so once I kind of put two and two together, my dad helped me realize that you know that movie Top Gun yeah, you can go do that if you go to the Naval Academy the things my sister is talking about, from all the opportunities and how impressive the midshipmen were. And then once I realized that that was a place I could play soccer, it rose to number one, totally top of the charts, exactly where I wanted to go.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, as a senior in high school in Hingham, Massachusetts, I was not accepted to the Naval Academy coming out of high school, so got that rejection letter in April of 2006. And I ended up going to Wake Forest University in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. So phenomenal school, had an incredible opportunity. But before I went to Wake Forest, in August of 2006, I reapplied to the Naval Academy. So the academy doesn't have your typical application window because of all the congressional nominations and all the different aspects that you have to do. The application window is always open, and so as soon as I got the rejection letter, I knew that was something that I wanted to do. So, without allowing my experience of Wake Forest to sway my determination, I said this is something I want to do. I finished my application to the Naval Academy. I would have told you no way, no chance. This is too good. I've got a girlfriend here.
Speaker 2:This is fantastic being in this school, I ended up finding out in April of 2007 that I was waitlisted at the Academy. When I got that letter, I didn't even know that you could be waitlisted at the Naval Academy. I thought you were either accepted or not. And so I got a letter that said you're know that you could be waitlisted at the Naval Academy. I thought you were either accepted or not, and so I got a letter that said you're fully qualified.
Speaker 2:We just don't have a spot for you, and so I ended up waiting it out. Send a couple of letters about hey, I'm really interested, you know, if a spot opens up. And then it was three weeks before I-Day I think it was June 1st Ended up getting an appointment to naval academy class of 2011 and since then went through the academy experience. I'm now a submarine officer and the xo on the uss west virginia.
Speaker 1:Yeah, holy smokes. And what was the because? I mean we, we joke like there's jest about like hey, eight march time frame, february march, like no way I'm reapplying, but at that spot you get waitlisted and you get in. You've done a year at wake. Where was was like the drive to like actually move forward with that and go to the academy instead of just staying in a really good situation that you had.
Speaker 2:You know, I think it was still the same drive in high school. Why I wanted to go to the academy was because everything I had heard about it was it's so impressive, right, it's so separate from all the other institutions, all the other colleges and universities you could go to, and so that was always intriguing to me. And then, definitely, with my year at Wake Forest, as great as it was, I had friends at Boston College, I had friends at NYU, I had friends at Columbia, I had friends at North Carolina, chapel Hill, right, all of those schools like they're fantastic, you know, absolutely enjoyed my experience, got a lot out of it, but I didn't see any difference, like if I'd stayed at home and gone to Boston College where both my parents went. It just seemed general, you know, and harder to break out and really get some incredible experience out of it. And so that's really the allure, that selectivity of the Naval Academy.
Speaker 2:That's really in the spring, when I was at Wake Forest, that's still what stuck with me was, you know, a as a competitive person. That was the place that said I wasn't good enough to go to. So let's try to prove this wrong. Obviously that competitive mindset, but also just the academy. The allure of it is kind of really what kept me interested and kept me going for that more dynamic career to where I'm not going to go into the general workforce, you know you at least have five years of military service. The excitement of it and kind of the value that that brings and that's what kept the academy as the ultimate goal. And I tell you, when I got the phone call to get off the wait list from the admissions department, my dad noticed the verbiage that I used when I told him the phone call I just got. It wasn't I got into the Naval Academy.
Speaker 1:The first thing I said after I hung up the phone, is I'm going to Annapolis? So the decision had already been made. Is I'm going to Annapolis?
Speaker 2:So the decision had already been made.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, interesting. And you had mentioned that you were a good soccer player in high school and you wanted to play in college. Obviously, Wake Forest is an ACC school. Like that's really hard. Did you play soccer at Wake and then, when you ended up coming to the academy, did you end up trying to play there? What was your situation with athletics?
Speaker 2:I did not. Yeah, that's interesting. So, coming out of high school, soccer and lacrosse were kind of my two main sports and Wake Forest and the academy at that time were actually opposites when it came to athletic prowess. Wake Forest, when I was there, was the number one ranked men's soccer team in the country. I did not have a chance to try out for Wake Forest men's soccer so what I ended up doing was playing the club. Lacrosse was developing. They wanted to turn it into an ACC lacrosse program. I was intrigued.
Speaker 2:I played club lacrosse when I got to the academy, the lacrosse team in the mid-2000s top five in the country at that point. I had no chance of trying out for the Navy men's lacrosse team but I did through high school. I had worked chance of trying out for the Navy men's lacrosse team, but I did through high school. I had worked with the Naval Academy coaching staff so they were familiar with me. When I showed up to Plebe summer they welcomed me onto the team. I had a locker during Plebe summer to be able to go sports period and ended up making the roster for my Plebe year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so cool. Well, I mean, what a fun experience. And you know what other other like kind of along those lines, did you play plebe year? What other activities did you continue at the Naval Academy? Was that something that you did want to continue? What was your story of things, activities you engaged in when you were in Annapolis?
Speaker 2:Always my focus was just a huge sports fan and just I could get interested in everything. I did play varsity soccer through my plebe year. I got back to camp for the summer. End of the summer, just before my youngster or sophomore year, we went through training camp and I was actually one of the last two to get cut at the end of training camp for my sophomore year. So it's like the day before our first game end of training camp for my sophomore year. So it was like the day before our first game.
Speaker 2:And that hurts really, coming from such a great you know, having that athletic team and that program to rely on, especially as a plebe, and then coming into kind of that youngster, a little more freedom, somewhat more laid back environment, to lose that varsity sport was definitely hit home. It was a tough challenge, a couple of weeks really to kind of get over it and realize that it was my soccer career done. The great fortune is worked out that I had a roommate who was a linebacker on the football team and the kicker on the Navy football team was Matt Harmon. He was a great kicker. He was graduating with no real heir apparent, you could say on the place kicking game. And so, without any football experience in my life at all, I ended up talking to the linebackers coach through my roommate who was the assistant special teams coach. They decided to give me a shot and I spent the rest of my youngster year on the football team as like the second or third string kicker somewhere in there, and so it was great. At the end of my youngster year, end of sophomore year, they let me go for roster room. I was never going to be the starting kicker. Just an incredible experience, though, to be part of that varsity football program, see how it works, just kind of all the engine behind what makes Navy football happen.
Speaker 2:And so, beyond that junior and senior year played club soccer. There was a big changeover this is like throwing it back to the glory days now right, a big changeover in head soccer coaches at the end of my sophomore year. And so, with the new coach likes to build his own roster, brought in a bunch of recruits and kind of wanted to start fresh. So we ended up having, I think, nine or 10 former varsity soccer players play on the club program, which made us incredibly good to where, in junior and senior year, we went to the national championships out in Phoenix, arizona. So you know my athletic journey at the academy. I couldn't have written it any better. You know sure I wanted to play varsity soccer. The whole time Wasn't getting a lot of playing time, we weren't winning a whole lot of games. Got to experience Navy football in all of its glory and then just to win, get a great group of friends on the Navy club soccer team. Athletically everything worked out great, but there were plenty of highs and lows there as we went through the athletic journey.
Speaker 1:You put 11 guys who are good enough to play Division I soccer on a club team. You're going to go. Yeah, you're going to have a good time.
Speaker 2:We were pretty dangerous yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's so cool and honestly again, I think it's really interesting, especially in your case where you went to normal college for a year and you come back Because of what you mentioned, like this prestige, this challenge, this development that happened there. How did you feel about your time as a midshipman, right, and do you think that it was everything that you were hoping it was going to be, and what was the leadership and personal development you experienced there? And, kind of, how do you feel about your experience overall as a midshipman?
Speaker 2:Yeah, fantastic question, because it really what the academy does. As far as the leadership development, I did not realize kind of the path that I could go down, the path that I was going down while at the academy. So, and the year I had at Wake Forest University was hugely beneficial for everything that I was able to achieve at the academy, really because of the lack of structure. And so at Wake Forest, you know, making friends, you're dropped into North Carolina out of Massachusetts knowing nobody. You know how do you make friends, how do you kind of figure these things out as you go, you know, with no real roadmap as to how you get to X degree. You know there's plenty of different pathways to go do that. So, having that experience under my belt, when you get to the academy there could be a tendency kind of the path of least resistance is just listen, follow along with kind of what the academy is offering you, without kind of going out of the way to build those relationships, grow that social network, to kind of like engage in. You know a great experience, both academically and socially at the academy. Obviously the social scene at the Naval Academy a little bit different than at Wake Forest University, but there's aspects that you know I was able to bring to kind of build that camaraderie.
Speaker 2:I think the real benefit of my year at Wake Forest was that relationship building, understanding, that extra perspective where kind of the way I described it was you could wait at the academy to kind of build your reputation and your influence based off of the stripes that are on your sleeve, and that is like a very by the book academy. Path to leadership is, you know, first as a plebe you're a follower, then as a youngster you start to dig into the leadership courses, and then, as a second class and a first class, you get some sleeves and some responsibility and now it's your time to lead. Well, kind of what I really learned is if you're not doing those things ahead of time, building those relationships, broadening your influence kind of in your social sphere, then you know that will become a huge shock Once you do have sleeves on your or, sorry, strikes on your sleeves. You just won't be prepared for that responsibility.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's super interesting and you kind of taking that proactive approach landed you as the brigade commander right In your first year. Can you talk a little bit about that and how you know your brigade leadership experience, what perspective it provided you, as well as kind of some lessons learned in development, because it is a really interesting aspect? Again, I think peer leadership is tremendously difficult and the reality is, even when you're the quote unquote brigade commander and you're the highest ranking midshipman, you're still just a midshipman, right, like other midshipmen are looking at you and they're like yeah, dude, we're the yeah, whatever, right, like you're the same. So what was, what was your experience as the brigade commander and how was that like as an overall experience in in your life and leadership development?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, yeah, incredible opportunity, absolutely. One that I still think defines who I am today, even though I don't rely on the Brigade Commander experience that's how I introduce myself in every conversation but it totally it changed my perspective significantly, kind of set me on this path of leadership development as a deliberate act. That was a big thing. So we kind of talked a little bit about kind of that experience of how you build your influence without relying on the direct responsibility, the privileges of the rank that you have, I think, before. So I never imagined that I would be the brigade commander. I think most a lot of people say that you know, know, there's only two per year. I actually went into the first interview with our battalion officer and they said my company senior enlisted leader chief jim cornu, had put me up for it because it was second semester senior year and no one wanted to do a brigade staff job. You know, me included. I just wanted to sit back and enjoy second semester senior year before you head to the police, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we get weekday liberty finally. I'm trying to have fun.
Speaker 2:Not in my plans and so, honestly, the first interview was with Captain Phillips, was our battalion officer and she asked me what job are you here to interview for? And I said brigade commander ma'am, because I thought there was no chance that anyone would pick me as the brigade commander. So I ended up going through there's a couple of rounds of interviews, which is it's interesting to talk about, as you had experience as well from the Cleve Summer Regimental leadership position. You go through a couple rounds of interviews. As those interviews kept developing, Obviously I took it very seriously and you know it became, wow, I have a chance to do this, you know. So, doing the research, talking to who, I could understand what was involved with the role and then found out that I was selected for the second semester brigade commander spot. But I think that the real leadership, the learning aspect that came from that is the learning aspect that came from, that is, prior to becoming the brigade commander. I had this idea of leadership that if you were really good at whatever that competency was. So I was the captain of my high school soccer team and kind of I had this model that like if you were one of the best on the team, then you should be the captain right and you know, if you follow kind of whatever that regimented guidelines are and you excel at it, like then you should be the leader. And so I was shocked at the beginning of my time as a brigade commander and really struggled significantly on just what you were talking about, that spotlight role where you're just another midshipman, which so all your friends in your company and everybody in your class just sees you as another midshipman. But then you take one step to the left and you're speaking at the anchor in King Hall or you're in front of the parade field or you're walking out of the brigade commander's room and you're not just another midshipman Then the parade field, or you're walking out of the brigade commander's room and you're not just another midshipman, then the spotlight's on you, a couple too many ums, you know, while speaking in front of the brigade, or misspeaking, saying something incorrect, amplified, and the pressure just was huge. And so I would say by the end of jan I had kind of realized that I was not prepared for this role. Just the amount of activities, the amount of engagement I was being asked to do from the superintendent and commandant side, and then the interpersonal engagement with company commanders, with other classmates, our class officers, the brigade commander, class president, relationship is very interesting, dynamic, Luckily for me, Mike Orzetti fantastic guy we got along very well. We still do to this day, but right, kind of that class leadership versus brigade leadership, dynamic, and I really struggled, made a lot of bad decisions because I was still kind of operating under that oh, the academy will give me whatever I need in order to be ready for this role. They think I'm ready. Sure, let's go do this type of mindset and fortunately, the Naval Academy with the Leadership Development Center right At the time I think the Stockdale Center wasn't really called the Stockdale Center when I was there it was just everybody's loose hall. But now it's the Stockdale Center for Ethical Leadership. Fantastic environment.
Speaker 2:And Colonel Art Athens was a brigade commander back in the 1970s, Takes a personal mentorship role with the brigade commanders, Met with him a few times through the month of January. I basically said, Colonel Athens, I am not ready for this, I don't really know what's going on, Can you help? And honestly, he gave me two books to read and I went, for it might even have been a long weekend over Martin Luther King weekend there and I read two books that opened my eyes, not just because of the leadership lessons of I remember one of them it was Marcus Buckingham's first break all the rules, and the second one was now discover your strengths, I think is the second one. It wasn't the fact that I got all this great information out of how to discover your strengths and lead from your strengths. What blew my mind was that people have struggled with this before, they've written about it and they've studied it.
Speaker 2:It sounds crazy that you could go four years at the Naval Academy, become the brigade commander and not really truly understand that deliberate leadership study is a thing that must be done in order to be ready for the next responsibility.
Speaker 2:So that was, I would say, kind of a shock to the system.
Speaker 2:Definitely put it into practice as much as I could as a brigade commander, and now that has launched me on almost everything I focus on at this point from a professional aspect is how do you learn that interpersonal leadership development, you know, broadening those horizons so that you're ready for that next responsibility when it presents itself.
Speaker 2:Because in a lot of ways, the brigade commander role even though you're a midshipman, you still have that spotlight with 4,000 other midshipmen looking at you every time you walk out of your room, which is just the dorm room. But people are looking to you to be that model midshipman. I don't know when that next level of responsibility will come as the XO right now, hopefully eventually a commanding officer, and as that builds, I never want to be caught flat-footed, as I was as brigade commander, make those mistakes which could kind of hinder the development, the achievement that we could achieve kind of as a group. So that's really set me off on this whole course. And it all roots back to how I approached the brigade commander job at first and then what I got out of it in the end 100.
Speaker 1:I think those roles are so interesting as a midshipman and it's weird, they're niche, right. Like you have two brigade commanders every year, right, so you get two reg commanders every year, like it's. It's such a small minority of the of the midshipman experience, right, but, but it's. But. It is fascinating, right, because at the end of the day, you are both things at the same time, which is you are just a midshipman and guess what? Your friends, like I'm sure a bunch of the soccer team and a bunch of things they're teasing you about the fact you're the brigade commander. Oh, look at this guy walking around with the six stripes. Oh, look at you. Hey, attention on deck right, get out of the way yeah right, like, get out of the way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you're getting, you're getting teased.
Speaker 1:Right, you're getting made fun of honestly by, like a lot of your peers and in, but at the same time and so you don't want to give off this, like this aura of, like you take it too seriously or you feel this power, right, but at the same time then you take two steps to the left, right and like, as a plebs summer reg commander, right, like, yeah, now you're shaking the hand of, you know, nate Thicke, coming to speak to the brigade at there, or you're on the superintendent's yacht and you're shaking hands with, you know, a board of visitors member who's you know speak in front of Congress every day.
Speaker 1:Right, like, you're putting these positions where you better be ready. Right, like, you better be prepared because you, you do have a slightly different experience and you put in some situations that that carry weight with them and there is a spotlight on you and being prepared for that is is really interesting, right, and so it's. I always think, like those experiences are huge for humility. Right, to make sure that you're never coming across anyway. Also, being silently, like, or like quietly, confident, prepared for any moment because guess what, like they can tease you all you want, but the moment you're up there on the stage, you know, shaking the hand of the foreign dignitary, the guest or the presenter.
Speaker 2:Like you better be sharp, you better be sharp right and see if I jump in, because I mean, you just made me think of it is really the intersection of those two right. When your peer, it's really accountability is what it comes down to. So we had I'll point to kind of the most uncomfortable leadership challenge I had as a brigade commander. I still remember it vividly to this day. We had SWO, their ship selection night. We had SWO, their ship selection night. So after ship selection, big party back at the first class club, which is the basement of the O club there at the academy. So huge night. A lot of people, a lot of grads come back from their ships to welcome you know, if you were on USS Cole, whoever selects USS Cole. You know you get to know the midshipman who's going to come be your future ensign, all that stuff. So it's a great night, awesome celebration, everybody has a ton of fun. But that night, our senior year, somebody stole a painting from the officer club and so that obviously didn't go over well. But now you have talked about the pure accountability aspect is all right. So our class is responsible for this party. Obviously we were involved in the revelry of the night. The administration turns to the brigade commander to figure out who stole this painting. Really, you are held accountable for your inability to keep this party under control.
Speaker 2:I was back in my room. I't a slow right and so the great, the great military challenge of you are personally held responsible for what went wrong last night. Go talk to your classmates and now, right, like all the great friendships, relationships we built, now it's like, hey, I gotta figure out who's in trouble here. Super challenging right to then stand in front of just your class and say, hey, you know this, we gotta figure this out. This accountability problem. Uh, and fortunately, I had the opportunity to go through that whole experience and in the end it was actually a junior officer who had come back, a grad, and the painting was returned. But just one of those wild experiences that you never really prepare yourself for. How do you, as the one midshipman who, like we were saying, two steps to the left, two steps to the right, you're hanging out talking with the guys and then the next day, it's all right, we need to crack down and figure out this accountability aspect. Yeah, like huge challenges.
Speaker 1:Never thought never prepared for. Never prepared for. It's so funny I have. I have a very similar story. I remember it was plebe summer and I'm taking a nap during, like towards the end of sports period Cause like I'm exhausted or I'm exhausted so I'm like I'm going to get like a 20 minute power nap. We're going. I just remember getting like a bang on my door and you know someone walks in and they're like, they're like hey, grant, the the don wants to see you right now. The common, like the common don wants to see you right now. And I was like, oh, like you know, you're like in that frazzle. You're like, oh, okay, like let me change and get ready.
Speaker 1:I, I like I sprint down to the commandant's office and he's like Grant, and I was like, yes, sir, he's like I just saw one of your plebes picking flowers as they were walking past into like smoke hall you know the little curve walkways underneath the steps of the bank or you go into Apparently. One of the plebes walking back from sports period had like picked one of the flower petals and he's like how is your regiment so undisciplined Like all this stuff? Like just going on because some plebe decided to pick a flower, a flower petal on the way back and like, and he's like screaming at me about this, right, and you're like what, what am I supposed to do? Right, like. And I remember sitting down and he, like, he wanted like accountability, he wanted an answer, like he wanted me to find this plebe who had like picked this flower Right. And and I just remember, like sitting down with Commander Murnane after that, who was the plebe summer OIC, and I was like what do I do? I don't even know Right, and man, it just it is.
Speaker 1:It's this, it's these silly situations, but set such a fun foundation right For the, for the furtherment of your career, professional career. And that's almost where I want to take this conversation now, because you've had a really great naval career and you've taken a lot, or you've taken advantage of a lot of really cool programs through your time in the Navy as an active submarine officer. You're doing your sea tours, but you've also managed to take advantage of cool programs that exist that a lot of people don't necessarily know about, including the Olmstead Scholarship, presidential Leadership Scholarships, being on the Council of Foreign Relations and a bunch of other things. I just want to turn this over to you to get to talk a little bit about taking control of your career path, being proactive, preparing for these situations to get the most out of your Navy experience, and then we'll dive a little bit more into each of them at a time, but I just want to turn it over to you to talk about your career path, that you've taken advantage of.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah. And I'm glad you led with the preparation aspect because that is like the greatest message that I was delivered as a midshipman. That is, taking ownership of your own career, setting your goals for kind of what you want to achieve. And so we talked about of your own career, setting your goals for kind of what you want to achieve, and so we talked about that realization. As the brigade commander of hey, this is something I really need to study. I need to broaden my perspective and understand, you know, all these different viewpoints so I can incorporate the leadership best practices so that we can be successful. All the teams that I am put in charge of can be successful. And so I was exposed as a midshipman to the Olmstead Scholar Program. I wish I remember who it was, but it was some professor decided to do a one-hour talk one night about his experience as an Olmstead Scholar. And now he was back teaching at the academy and it was actually my plea year. Here's a great varsity sports capability was I had Navy soccer sweatsuit. The talk was for, I think, second class and first class, but I wasn't in blue and gold, I wasn't in uniform, I was wearing my Navy soccer sweatsuit, so I just walked in and listened. They never asked me if I was a plebe or anything like that, but it really launched. Now I'm familiar with the Olmstedsted scholarship and kind of put it on my radar, but so put the Olmsted scholarship as one of my goals.
Speaker 2:When I was leaving the academy I also had a great mentor, carl Trost, admiral Carl Trost he was the CNO in the 1980s. Through family connections ended up getting to know him and he had been the first Olmsted scholar 1960 was his class and so he had talked about it. I was always interested in it and then really set my goal as a junior officer on a submarine was to go apply for the Olmsted scholarship and be as prepared as I could be to be selected, which I was. So selected as an Olmsted scholar. I went and spent two years in Tartu, estonia. Before that I spent a year in Washington DC learning how to speak Estonian and be able to take classes in Estonian while in Estonia. And so yeah, olmstead Scholarship phenomenal opportunity. But what they look for is the career potential for command. Influence is really kind of what it boils down to, where I think you had a different podcast episode where we're talking about the foreign area officer program which is it's very similar in kind of that cultural expertise and language expertise. But the goal of the Olmsted scholarship is to produce leaders who are educated broadly and ready to lead at the highest level. So if you point to kind of your model Olmstead scholar, carl Trost, former CNO, he's kind of you know, the poster child because he was the first class General Olmstead.
Speaker 2:If I can just jump into a little history of General Olmstead because there's a fantastic academy connection here, so General Olmsted was West Point class of 1922. And so he went to West Point. His brother, gerald, went to the Naval Academy, was originally class of 1921. But back at that time in World War I they were shrinking down to three-year programs to four. They were going back and forth. So what ended up happening was George Olmsted at West Point and Gerald Olmsted at the Naval Academy became first captain at West Point and brigade commander at the Naval Academy at the same time, which obviously that has never happened. We're two brothers, it's incredible, right.
Speaker 2:And so General Olmsted ended up getting out of the Army, downsizing after World War. I called back to active duty during World War II, retired again and then called back to active duty again in Korea. You got a lot of the logistics and kind of what would be your government liaison roles in the private sector. He made a bunch of money and then in 1960, he endowed this Olmstead scholarship, which started as two Naval Academy grads, two Air Force grads and two Army graduates every year. So those were the six. Admiral Trost was in that first class in 1960, and then rose to be the Chief of Naval Operations. So, like I say, that was General, that was General.
Speaker 2:Olmsted's path was for officers to lead well, they need to be educated broadly, they need to understand global perspectives. Because he saw it in Japan with the repatriation of the POW he was specifically in charge of. That mission was to get clear out all the Japanese prisoner of war camps and repatriate the Americans back home. Japanese prisoner of war camps and repatriate the Americans back home. And also again in Korea, where those cultural interpretation missteps really hurt the military aspect. And what he realized was really effective leaders are good at incorporating viewpoints, listening and understanding with compassion. And so he created the scholarship. It's grown since 1960. Like I said, used to be academy grads, only six of them per year. There's now all services are represented. They select anywhere from 15 to 20 scholars per year, so there's typically three to five Navy naval officers.
Speaker 2:So that are selected per year, educated throughout the globe in a foreign language, so you can't go to England because you know speaking.
Speaker 1:English.
Speaker 2:So you have to learn a foreign language which is taught to you by the Navy. If you don't have any language skill to begin with, like I was, and then go abroad to to study, earn, work towards a master's degree ideally earn a master's degree taught in that language.
Speaker 1:But just an incredible opportunity.
Speaker 2:I do want to kind of point out Admiral Trost is one. More recently, admiral Jamie Fogo was a great another submariner. I don't mean to only throw out submariners here right, but he had a great opportunity to meet him a few times. He's now the president of the board of directors for the homestead nation. Again I'm with kurt. Tid was commander of south com pretty recently. He was a slow commander south com and then kind of one of the other ones that you'd see on the website is John Abizade, who is commander at CENTCOM in the Iraqi invasion years, kind of there in the early 2000s.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's so cool. Sorry to cut you off Again, I just think this and I want to like double down on it because it just I didn't fully process it the first time I heard about this, because I have a good friend, shakir Robinson, who's a Marine Corps officer. He just finished his Olmstead scholarship program in Mexico and I assumed, right, like, yeah, you go get your master's degree. I thought like courses would be taught in English. No, no, no, like, whatever you're getting your master's degree in, like you have to pass those classes in the native language. Right Like he, he hadn't learned Spanish until he started this journey and now he's like taking master's level political science classes and international affair classes in Spanish, dude, like it's, it's, it's so impressive and it's so cool.
Speaker 1:And you know, specifically for him too which I thought was really cool for all my Marines out there he actually took advantage of what they call the career pause program and so he was able to basically shift from like active duty to I think they put you in like a reserve status for a year while you pause your service. He did a year of travel throughout South America to like get a foundation of Spanish, like of learning Spanish. Then he returned back to the Olmsted Scholar Program, actually took a year of language training and then just got it and finished his degree in Mexico and now he just returned. He put on major, he's 04 back in the Marine Corps, like you know, doing his job right, and intends to have a career in the Marine Corps and, you know, hopefully battalion command and above and just do all that. And again, it's such a cool program that exists in so many different ways and this is a big plug for him. Obviously he's just a friend of mine. He's actually writing a book it releases in early June called my Olmstead Scholar Journey Tips, insights and Stories for Future Scholars.
Speaker 1:So if you're listening to this conversation, you're like man, this is so cool. I would want to learn even more about an Olmstead Scholar journey or et cetera. Make sure to go check it out, cause it's going to be just like further dive into that. But we're also going to take a do our due diligence here to continue to like talk more about it. And you know, I guess where we'll return in this conversation to you is you know you've mentioned that it's grown and that we have about 15 to 20 people a year that gets selected for this program? Where can you go, like, what's the process of actually applying and when you apply, do you apply for a specific like country or region or language, or is that all kind of determined on the backend? How does that work? How many locations are available and like, what's the process that one would go through to take advantage of this program?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question because that's part of the ambiguity, kind of as you develop the Olmstead experience, as it were. So you apply through each service, so the Navy has its own selection process and then they nominate about 10 finalists or so a year which they send to the Olmstead Board of Directors and they'll review and interview those 10 Navy candidates and then select anywhere from three to five for the year. So each service handles it a little bit differently up until you get to the board of directors where all the applications are the same. So the Navy applications always do in August. And there's a few key components to that.
Speaker 2:One is the D-Lab, the Defense Language Aptitude Battery, which is just a test of this gibberish language that really tests your aptitude to learn a language. There's some minimums that are mythically out there that you know you can't be an Olmsted scholar unless you get 105 or you know those aren't written down anywhere. Honestly, from my experience, everyone who's selected, like you, are going to learn the language right, like that's going to happen. There's probably different glide slopes of the amount of work you need to put in in order to learn that language, but zero Olmsted scholars have finished the program, like, oh, I guess I didn't actually learn Arabic or Chinese or Estonian right, like you're going to get there. The D-Lab is really just kind of a threshold, like okay, I think the board of directors tends to use it as if we're going to send somebody to learn Arabic or Mandarin. We're going to want to make sure that they're they have a high aptitude.
Speaker 1:They have a high aptitude for language.
Speaker 2:So that's really you know. It's not a screening process, by any means.
Speaker 2:So, the academy really, or, sorry, from the Navy application. It's very fit rep dependent. So your performance evaluations that's where all of the information is really going to come from is how your commanding officer has assessed your performance to date. There is a personal statement. That's in there, and then you do submit a list of 10 preferences. To get to your question, there's a few rules. Obviously, it must be a foreign language. There's a few off limits location. We don't send Olmstead scholars to North Korea you might be surprised, right? So there's a few off limits locations which are available on the website. And then, because it's a two-year program, overseas we also don't send.
Speaker 2:Olmsted scholars to the same city in back-to-back years. You're supposed to be there on your own. You're supposed to have your own self-discovery. You don't want to have a second-year political science master's student just showing you the ropes of kind of how this all works. As I walked into this Estonian bureaucracy that really had no corporate knowledge of like, how do I actually get this done? And that's really the crux of the Olmsted experience. So if you take a look at the Olmsted scholars, they just announced in March is when they announced. So if you want to apply next year for the 2026 application window, take a look at the 2025 list of countries and cities that everybody's going to. Those are going to be off limits to your class. And then you submit a list on your application of 10 cities. So you are supposed to rank kind of the city and university that you want to go to, those 10. And then it really is a great conversation. So I submit in my 10. It goes up to the Navy board. It's really one of those administrative boards that happens, I think, in Millington and then they just screen these applications. You find out that you're one of the 10 finalists and then the Olmstead Foundation very family focused. I mean, the whole scholarship is a family oriented personal development journey and so they're great about you, have your interview, they review the application, they ask you amplifying questions about your application and then kind of the agreement is, if they want to send you somewhere that's not on your list which does happen they may look at your 10 and say, hey, I think you'd be a great fit for somewhere else. They will call you and have that discussion right. Hey, you know, tell me what your wife, what does your husband think about this? Like, are the kids? You know, are you comfortable with going to Tartu, estonia? Are you comfortable with going to Muscat, oman, like you know? Because we think we'd really like to get a scholar there and we think that you're the right opportunity. So there's a great discussion and we think that you're the right opportunity. So there's a great discussion, although they do rely heavily on that list of 10 preferences. That's really where they're going to base their decisions off of. But there are strategic locations where we want to send Olmsted scholars. We want to get that experience.
Speaker 2:The current president of the Olmsted Foundation, general Scott, tells a fantastic story. He was class of 1978 and he went to go study in Germany and John Abizade was a West Point classmate of his who went to study in Amman, jordan, and General Scott, major Scott at the time, said John like why are you going to study in Jordan? There's 170,000 Soviet troops in Germany. We're never going to fight a war in the Middle East. And you know, here we are. 30 years later John is the commander of CENTCOM leading the Iraqi invasion. So you know just the foresight the board has, kind of trusting the process. A lot of the ways is that the Olmstead scholarship is designed to generate leaders who are multicultural. Generate leaders who are multicultural. They have that perspective and then they're going to lead forces, which is the huge difference between that FAO cultural expertise program to where the scholarship is. We're going to give you this ambiguous experience.
Speaker 2:So you can lead forces in combat better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, super fascinating and along those lines, with that being the main focus and you're saying sometimes they have a little bit more finger involved, like fingers involved in your process and molding it and potentially directing you one way. Is that the same with the actual course of study? Is there a design like you have to get this degree? Are you able to kind of choose your degree? Can you kind of present what degree you want, or is that like a specified part of the program that it's going to be related to? You know something international fair political science related?
Speaker 2:So it's definitely humanities related. That is that's what we're shooting for. You know, we're not going to do a year of language training and send a scholar overseas to study systems engineering. You know, just do MATLAB all day. It's really the engagement perspective, sharing understanding aspects. So, to answer your question, the foundation will approve your curriculum that you're planning on. So you're sent to.
Speaker 2:For me, in my case, I was sent to the city of Tartu in Estonia and then it was up to me to apply. Good thing about Estonia there's only one university in Tartu. It is the National University of Estonia. So there wasn't much ambiguity as to where I was going. There's one, there's like a. Basically we would in English we would call it Tartu A&M. There's an agricultural school that's also in Tartu. It wasn't going to be on my radar for where I was going to study. I was going to study. I don't think the foundation would have bought off on that one For your director of the humanities. There's a few scholars, depending on the type of MBA program that's offered. I know a few of them in China have done kind of a business development, but obviously in a communist country that's a fascinating perspective to take. So they're not approved. But really a lot of us focus on the political science, international relations, philosophy. That's really where you'll find most Olmsted scholars focus really to kind of generate that perspective and understanding.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's super interesting. And again, at the end of the day you're a student and with being a student there's a lot of downtime, right, like there are breaks, like you have either semesters or quarters or whatever the case is. What's the general lifestyle? Is there any incentive to continue again with the discussion that we've been having about the intention about getting this really broad, ambiguous cultural experience? Are there any incentives to use that downtime to take advantage of certain opportunities or go travel, see different places? How does that all fit into the overall lifestyle of being an Olmstead scholar?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah. So the lifestyle this is the pitch for anybody who's even half considering a scholarship here. So, yes, you're a student which, after coming from a submarine JO tour, the amount of free time is mind-blowing, right the ability to read and travel and enjoy the family time. That's why it's such a family-focused experience, you know, and trying to include that. And so it really starts from the day you're selected.
Speaker 2:So my wife is an attorney, so she couldn't join me in language school, but that is an option. The spouse can go to language school with the scholar. You can sit side by side, learn the language together. Or, in the case of our family, the foundation also offers a $5,000 language training bonus to the spouse. So my wife was able to hire an Estonian tutor which she met with two days a week or so, two or three days a week, and we were able to pay her an hourly wage for Estonian training from the grant given to us by the Olmsted Foundation. And then it continues when you're overseas, so you're encouraged to travel the region extensively.
Speaker 2:So, obviously, being in the Baltics and branching out into the Nordic countries was kind of really our focus. We did make three trips to Russia. This was back in 2017, where it wasn't totally unheard of, and so we were able to really understand kind of the Soviet occupation and what that Estonian mindset is developed from, by getting to know the neighbors. And in order to develop that regional cultural expertise, the foundation gives scholars it's approximately $10,000 a year, which is a grant which must be used for travel. So I want to say yeah, sweet.
Speaker 2:Like I said, this is a big pitch for the Olmstead Scholarship. It starts around $8,500 to $9,000, and then you get additional money based off of the number of dependents so that they can be included in the travel. But at the end of every year you have to account for that grant and you write basically a summary of here's where I spent the foundation's money and what I've learned from it, and so it is strictly travel based. It's $10,000 a year to go travel your region and kind of like you were talking about living in Estonia as a student, not a ton of overhead on time or costs, really, and so the ability.
Speaker 2:When we were over in Estonia our daughter was born about one year when we were in, so we had a baby in Estonia incredible cultural experience there. Many Olmsted scholars do that. So except for kind of the two weeks prepartum or sorry, two months prepartum and two months postpartum we averaged a trip somewhere in Europe every two weeks. We averaged a trip somewhere in Europe every two weeks. So at the time there were 27 member states in NATO and I think 30 in the EU and we visited 23 or 24 of them. That's pretty sweet. It was incredible travel opportunities. I mean it's just, it's the best.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I mean at this time you're still active duty, right Again, I think I talk a lot about like these programs in the military, that like you're getting your degree for free, right, well, it's not even close for you, you're getting your degree for free, but it's also not that you're just getting it for free, but like that's your job, it's your job, so you're getting paid. Is that the same thing with Olmsted? Like you're still earning your active duty pay and everything associated with that.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. Your active duty lieutenant when I was over in Estonia, also a submarine lieutenant. So there's a nuclear power bonus that I was still getting every June 1st. You know $45,000 dropped into your bank account for being a submarine officer. And so you still get all the pay and amenities.
Speaker 2:You know the TRICARE, your health care. My wife had a baby in Estonia which socialized health care. We were thrilled with the quality of care that we got in Estonia, but the $2,000 birth bill was also covered by TRICARE. It was all approved all through TRICARE. For the health insurance side, still getting my normal pay.
Speaker 2:And then when you're overseas, many officers are familiar with VAH, your basic allowance for housing, which is what the Navy gives you every month in the United States. Overseas it's OHA, overseas Housing Allowance. Really, the only difference is our lease gets approved through the Department of the Navy and then they pay me exactly the amount of money that our lease is for, where BAH is a general lump sum. You can go lower or higher however you want. We just had to get our lease approved and still got OHA.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, as a student, with the amount of free time, the ability to kind of branch out to all these different experiences. I joined a fraternity while I was a student at the University of Tartu Right. Just those opportunities don't exist anywhere else in the Navy, to where you're completely isolated, really on your own. And that's the purpose of the scholarship is to have that independent, critical thinking, problem solving capability. So it was. I went to a check-in in Naples to get my orders signed and then I flew 900 miles to the Northeast and I never saw anybody that was in the Navy for another two years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, holy smokes, what an experience man. Yeah, I guess the one question is always kind of what I would consider like, quote unquote, maybe the catch, but again I don't know that it's really a catch. But again, when you get this program, they're paying you for your degree, they're giving you travel grants Again, because this is the Olmstead Foundation that's presenting this to you. Is there an additional service commitment that comes with it? Again, at the end of the day, the intention of this program is to take this experience and bring it to your command, to bring this to your service, to the nation. So is there an obligated service commitment that comes with it? Or, again, is the identification of the right candidate for this generally lead to people that stick around and kind of serve, whether that be in the military or in government service? What's their approach to that situation?
Speaker 2:So there's really both sides. There's absolutely an obligated service but that's a great perspective that you have that. Also those officers who are selected as Olmsted scholars they are selected because they've shown an aptitude for command and they're likely to continue in their service. But the Olmsted scholarship is treated just like every other graduate education, which I think the Navy's policy right now is time and a half, not served concurrently. So I did three total years of one learning a language and then two years in Estonia. So I owed, I think, a total of seven years starting from the day I left Estonia, and so I'm beyond that commitment now. Really it's just for a submarine officer. It was a department head tour plus a shore duty and that was all of the educational time that I owed. Where if I had gone to the Naval Postgraduate School and some of the other, like the Fleet Scholars Education Program, a few of the other graduate education, there's no difference in the actual commitment at the end of that.
Speaker 1:Sweet, well, cool. I think this is the coolest program Again. I think there's so many incredible opportunities for service members, for the life experience, for the cultural experience, for the development in your own personal and leadership philosophies, and just providing that entire perspective of everything, and so I think this is just the coolest program and I'm so appreciative of you taking the time to come on and talk about it. I just want to give you an opportunity for any kind of like save rounds about this experience, anything that you wanted to talk about, what did I not ask you that you wanted to, you know, discuss in this period what you know, whether it's about your time at the Naval Academy, your time in the Olmstead Scholarship or just your time as a submarine officer that you'd want to, you know, speak to directly either midshipmen, future midshipmen and their families.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. You know, just from the Olmstead Scholar perspective specifically, is the guidance. You're right, this is not a very well known program. It's because the foundation itself is a 501c3, and they can't advertise, right? So it's up to us as former scholars to go out meet junior officers, talk to people like you about hey, this is my experience, you know, to spread the word of the program, there's a lot of in-service things like the detailers. When the submarine detailers come they mention the Olmstead Scholar Program as a potential shore duty option but they don't have the breadth of experience that somebody who did the program has.
Speaker 2:So in order to kind of encourage and really to weed out some of the questions that might exist, if you're interested in Olmstead Scholarship, you can create a username and password on olmsteadfoundationorg. You become a member as a prospective applicant and you have access to the reports that Onset Scholars file at the end of every year. So one is called the registration report. So you file that with the foundation. I think mine is like 25 pages. It's a lot of information about how the application process works, like how did I end up in Tartu, estonia? What were the challenges about all the bureaucracy there? To ship my car from the United States to Estonia. What were the challenges about all the bureaucracy there to ship my car from the United States to Estonia? It's all kind of those things you need to figure out. That exists in the registration report and then you get a first year and a second year report and you can search them by recency chronologically you can look at, like, the class of 2024, where their reports are. You can search by I'm interested in Estonia. Let me take a look at the. There's only been three scholars ever in Estonia. We just named our fourth in May or sorry, march, right, and so you can say I'm interested in Estonia. Let me look at all of their reports so that information is out there and just kind of that camaraderie community experience that is, the Olmsted experience is fantastic. So if anybody is remotely interested in the program, reach out to an Olmstead scholar, you know, just to share that experience.
Speaker 2:I had a great opportunity. As I said, my Olmstead journey is something that I always wanted to shoot for While I was in the application process in April of 2015, john Ahlstrom, who has just completed his Olmsted Scholar program. He was a PXO and he came on board my submarine for training and he said what are you thinking about doing for shore duty? And I said I really want to be an Olmsted Scholar. And he said I was an Olmsted Scholar two months ago, let's talk.
Speaker 2:And that is really what solidified my application, kind of gave me all those pointers, the inside information about kind of how to craft this application. You know what to put in your fit reps. That type of aspect just meeting him, being able to talk to him and then him introducing me to a few other scholars is really what made it happen. So the best advice I can give is, whether it's Olmsted scholarship or whatever you want your career to become, be aggressive to get out there, gain those experiences. Because if you sit in the rudimentary, step by step like I'm going to learn just what the Navy tells me to do and I'll learn it just in time to become a department head, and then I'll go to department head and then send me to PXO school and then I'll learn how to be an XO it's not going to result in success. So set those goals about what it is you want to achieve, you know, establish those timelines and then aggressively kind of go seek them out and make sure that you always have something that you're shooting for.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I love it. Also thanks for thanks for shaving your dirty mustache before the interview the old, the old submariner, the old submariner stache baby.
Speaker 2:For a recording.
Speaker 1:For crew camaraderie. Right there, just a couple of dudes growing some sweet staches, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my warden is going to. Let me hear it in the morning when I show up with my mustache.
Speaker 1:Well, sean, genuinely thank you so much for taking the time to talk about all this stuff today. We really appreciate it. And for anyone listening again, you know, reach out to me, we'll be sure to get you information about the you know, the Olmstead Scholarship Program and for anyone who's out there who's been an Olmstead scholar that just you know wants to touch base with me. So if people reach out and ask to, you know, you know, build a, build a list, but obviously, again, you can go to the Olmstead you know foundation to find these people as well. But I would love to stay connected, to connect people who may be interested in the program and, you know, provide this mentorship or an ability to have these conversations, and I love it. Thank you, stay safe. I know you're getting ready to again. You're in a sea tour and guess what, when you're in a sea tour, you go to sea. So, you know, thank you for your time again and be safe, and we really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Thank you, grant, really appreciate it and I appreciate the audience you're reaching out to. This whole program is fantastic.
Speaker 1:And Academy Insider. I hope you have a good rest of your day, thank you. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Academy Insider Podcast. I really hope you liked it, enjoyed it and learned something during this time. If you did, please feel free to like and subscribe or leave a comment about the episode. We really appreciate to hear your feedback about everything and continue to make Academy Insider an amazing service that guides, serves and supports midshipmen, future midshipmen and their families. Thank you.
