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The Academy Insider Podcast - Your Guide to The Naval Academy Experience
The mission of Academy Insider is to guide, serve, and support Midshipmen, future Midshipmen, and their families. Through the perspective of a community of former graduates and Naval Academy insiders, this podcast will help you learn about life at the United States Naval Academy in Annapolis. Through our shared experiences, Academy Insider guides families through the anxiety and frustration caused by lack of understanding, misinformation, and confusion. This platform is designed to better relationships between midshipmen and their loved ones. This podcast is not affiliated with the United States Naval Academy, the United States Navy or Department of Defense. The thoughts and opinions are exclusively those of your host and his guests.
The Academy Insider Podcast - Your Guide to The Naval Academy Experience
#082 Annapolis to Harvard: The Fleet Scholar Education Program (FSEP) with Rex Willis (USNA '17 & HBS '24)
Join us as Rex Willis, a Naval Academy graduate and former cyber operations major, takes us on his inspiring journey from College Park, Georgia, to Harvard Business School. Through the Fleet Scholar Education Program (FSEP), Rex exemplifies how a service academy education can unlock unparalleled educational and career opportunities—even while serving as a surface warfare officer. We highlight the transformative impact of these initiatives, illustrating how they enable personal and professional growth beyond traditional military pathways.
We shine a light on the importance of effective leadership and mentorship within the Navy, drawing from Rex's personal experience of supporting a sailor’s career advancement. By fostering a supportive environment and advocating for career progression, leaders can not only fulfill individual aspirations but also retain top talent within the service. We also explore the process of "fleeting up," which allows junior officers to advance to higher roles while maintaining continuity within commands—enhancing both their personal growth and the operational stability of their units.
Rex's story illustrates the profound benefits of the FSEP, from covering graduate education costs to offering diverse career trajectories. We discuss the broader implications of a service academy education, emphasizing the importance of academic excellence, mentorship, and networking for maximizing career opportunities. With personal anecdotes and insights, we underscore the generational impact of such an education, providing transformative opportunities not only for individuals but also for their families.
The mission of Academy Insider is to guide, serve, and support Midshipmen, future Midshipmen, and their families.
Grant Vermeer your host is the person who started it all. He is the founder of Academy Insider and the host of The Academy Insider podcast and the USNA Property Network Podcast. He was a recruited athlete which brought him to Annapolis where he was a four year member of the varsity basketball team. He was a cyber operations major and commissioned into the Cryptologic Warfare Community. He was stationed at Fort Meade and supported the Subsurface Direct Support mission.
He separated from the Navy in 2023 and now owns The Vermeer Group, a boutique residential real estate company that specializes in serving the United States Naval Academy community PCSing to California & Texas.
We are here to be your guide through the USNA experience.
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Hey, if you are a fan of Academy Insider, you are going to love this episode. You're going to love it. This is so cool and it just highlights all of the incredible opportunities that exist in Annapolis and beyond. And so if you are new to Academy Insider One, I hope you enjoy this episode and get an insight into a little bit of the Machim and experience and all the opportunities that are provided by a service academy education. And so in today's episode, I'm joined by Rex Willis.
Speaker 1:Rex was a class of 17 graduate. He's my classmate. He was a cyber operations major, went on to be a service warfare officer and then got accepted to take advantage of a really cool program called FSEP, the Fleet Scholar Education Program and as a result of that, he got to go, while active duty, to Harvard Business School, get his MBA from Harvard for free and get paid by the Navy because he's active duty, that is his job to go to Harvard. And now he's back in the fleet for an additional payback sea tour. But now he's at department head school in Rhode Island. That sounds crazy to you. I mean it is. It's incredible, right? So if you're interested to learn about some of the incredible opportunities that you can take advantage of where you could quite literally be a Naval Academy graduate, a Harvard School of Business graduate, with zero debt, at 32, 33 years old, potentially getting out of the Navy, if that's what you choose. Those opportunities exist, the programs exist. So if you wanna learn about this, some of these incredible opportunities and genuinely his love for being a SWO and his desire to stay in the Navy and do all these things, listen to this episode. This is what it's all about. I talk about the Naval Academy being a generational changing opportunity. This episode highlights it right here. So if you like it, please share it with someone who you may know so they can see everything that is incredible about a service academy education. Thank you so much. I hope you enjoy it. Enjoy the listen.
Speaker 1:The Academy Insider Podcast is sponsored by the Vermeer Group, a residential real estate company that serves the United States Naval Academy community and other select clientele in both California and Texas. If I can ever answer a real estate related question for you or connect you with a trusted Academy affiliated agent in the market which you're in, please reach out to me directly at grant at the Vermeer groupcom. You can also reach out to me on my LinkedIn page, Grant Vermeer and I'd be happy to respond to you there. Thank you so much, and now let's get back to the episode.
Speaker 1:All right, hey Rex, thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to join us here on the Academy Insider Podcast and share a little insight into something that I think is a really cool opportunity for a lot of midshipmen and just junior officers across the fleet, which are all the incredible opportunities that exist in the graduate school realm that don't even require you to get out of the service. Right, I think there's a lot of heightened awareness about, like, getting your GI Bill to go to school outside of the service, but there are also a lot of opportunities in the service. So I'm excited for you to talk about again your opportunities and your experience that you had with the FSEP program. But before we even get there, do you mind just giving a quick background to who you are, where you came from, how you ended up at the Naval Academy and then a little bit about your naval career up to this point and what you're doing now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. First off, just thank you so much for allowing me to come on this platform. I think it's very important being able to share my experience and giving back and paying it forward, because there were people who assisted me in my journey to get to where I am now. So thank you for that. A little bit about me, so, born and raised College Park, georgia, come from a super big family, seven brothers and sisters, so community is really important to me.
Speaker 2:My parents they instilled in a very young age hard work, making sure that you stay disciplined when it comes to your goals, and the way that they really did that was through the track program that they had. So track was my first love, been running since I was four years old, ran all the way to throughout the academy, and so my original plan was to try and get a track scholarship. But going into my junior year I applied to go to summer seminar. A family friend recommended and said like, oh, I think you would really like this.
Speaker 2:And at first I wasn't really attracted too much to that idea, probably because I don't know, I just had a warped view of, like, what the military was.
Speaker 2:I saw World War II movies and I really didn't have anybody in my family that was in the military. I saw World War II movies and I really didn't have anybody in my family that was in the military, so I didn't necessarily have that exposure. So I don't think my view of the military was probably the most representative. But I went to summer seminar, which is a summer program that's a few weeks over the summer where you're able to get a peek behind the curtain of what it's like to be a midshipman and what you would be able to do, like being there, and then what the opportunities are after you graduate. And I went there, had a blast and from that point forward, like I was like, ok, like the Naval Academy is definitely a place for me. So I went home, applied the fall of my senior year, went through the whole congressional nomination process and the whole school application and luckily I was accepted and part of the class of 2017.
Speaker 1:That's right. Not only class of 2017, but a cyber major too. Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:We're the second class to be cyber operations majors. I was just talking to somebody a few days ago. They said they have data science majors. Now I think this may be like the third or fourth year that they have it, but that one thing. Another thing about the academy is that they're always looking at ways to improve and looking at the most relevant uh fields or uh industries where we can use these tools. That would be beneficial not only to our nation, you know, in regarding national security, but outside no, absolutely 100.
Speaker 1:Agree. I think it's one of the cool things and again, just doubling down on that fact that that investment is in policy, it's an infrastructure right. They just released and are having active classes in Hopper Hall now for the cyber majors, for the data science, anyone kind of in the computing field. Literally there's a skiff right Like a top secret portion of Hopper Hall where first class midshipmen are receiving their elective courses that are being briefed at the top secret level, like I mean super cool things that are happening at the Naval Academy, staying on the cutting edge and providing these resources and opportunities to midshipmen for truly like an elite education right, an elite education which is super cool.
Speaker 1:After you get done with the Academy, you get into the surface warfare community. How was your time as a SWO JL Like? How was that experience for you? What were your main takeaways from being, you know, a young SWO and, in your opinion, how do you think the Academy set you up for success in the fleet? Any stories or core memories that you have, that kind of you know, highlight that transition from being a midshipman to being a young junior officer in the fleet.
Speaker 2:Yeah for sure. So I enjoyed my time being a SWO, as a JO. So just to give a little bit of context so after I commissioned I went to the John Paul Jones DDG 53 with station in Pearl Harbor. I went to the ship it was the ballistic missile great duty station, so I was assigned to the ballistic. It was the Ballistic Missile Great Duty Station, so I was assigned to the Ballistic Missile Defense Test Ship, which the JPJ was at the time.
Speaker 2:So we had a unique situation where we only go out to sea a few weeks at a time and maybe have a few weeks in port in between, but never in a situation where we're going to deployment. So I had to see an experience where you fall outside a traditional life cycle of Navy ships. But then the whole time I was there, or I would say the first 18 months I was there, they said, oh, you're not going on deployment, and that's the way it had been for the previous three years. And then, lo and behold, the Commodore comes to the ship one day and was like yep, you're going on deployment to 7th Fleet and 5th Fleet, so the South China Sea and the Arabian Gulf. And so that was nice as well, because I had the opportunity to see a different aspect of the surface Navy, because it's one thing to go out in the port in a Hawaii area and do a few tests and then pull back in the port, but then to actually be on the front lines and you're face-to-face pretty much with our adversaries with China, iran and Russia, all of these other countries. I thought it was like you could really get a sense of being able to test your mettle and see how you respond in high stress environments. So that's like.
Speaker 2:One thing I really enjoyed was the level of responsibility that you get as a SWO, because that was like one thing that was at the academy that people would tell you like whether it be a mentor or professors, whatever the case may be is that once you become a SWO, like that's the quickest way to get a leadership experience and they were telling the truth because they really throw you off the deep end as soon as you get to the ship.
Speaker 2:But it's like you really learn a lot about yourself doing that.
Speaker 2:But you can also impact so many sailors lives in the course of that and that was like one thing that I think I appreciate the most about the service is being able to touch different people's lives, and it's crazy how you can influence somebody without knowing it.
Speaker 2:Just being yourself and I think that's another thing I try and bring my most authentic self, uh when I'm on board the ship, because I think that's very important, uh, to not only like connect with people but just to be who you are, because you don't want to be in a situation where you're acting a certain type of way and that's taking away mental capacity for you to focus on other things. But as far as the academy and how it allowed me to be prepared for that, I think it was just like the wealth of knowledge that's at the academy, with all the instructors that you have the summer training, and like, yes, you can get that through some other means, but I don't think necessarily the people who have years and years of experience that you interact with on a daily basis, how that affects your decision and gives you a more informed picture of, like what it's like to be a surface warfare officer more informed picture of, like what it's like to be a surface warfare officer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, a hundred percent. I think it's crazy too, like you're saying the wealth of information you have at the Academy. Cause again it feels so funny, cause when we're mid shipment we're so used to walking down just a normal way on the way to class and passing by three, oh, fives, a couple, oh sixes, maybe an Admiral they're all stopping and saying hey and hello and good and talking to you, and when you get out to the fleet you're not talking to O6s, dude, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like you don't have that level of again access to like senior leadership on a day-to-day basis. To like have all those opportunities. And I wanted to actually ask you a question it was something you really mentioned Like did you have, do you have a core memory of showing up to your ship early on, right, like maybe first year, first couple of months, and having a sailor come up to you and like either say like that you've made a positive impact on their life or ask you for help.
Speaker 1:Cause I think that was like my biggest thing and it's always my thing to midshipmen is like never underestimate the impact you can make with simple actions, and it's one of the incredible things about being a military junior officer is at 22 or 23 years old, based on your rank and your role on the ship. Like there are young sailors, there are young men and women that are like, looking up to you to help them and to solve their problems, and you're going to have a real opportunity right when you use the term leadership. They're real human beings, real souls who are looking at you to help them. Right, and I was wondering if you have a memory from your first tour or whatever it is, where you're like holy smokes. I have a real ability to make an impact in people's lives, or make a positive influence or a positive change in someone who's looking for direction and guidance. Yeah for sure.
Speaker 2:So an issue that the Navy has been having, and just the military in general, is recruiting the past few years, and it can be attributed to a lot of things. But one thing I think that we can do as leadership is being able to positively influence somebody where they feel like they have a meaning and purpose and that they're doing something bigger than themselves. Like that's one thing that you normally hear about the military you know you're part of something bigger than yourself, but to actually understand and be able to internalize that, I think, is a different level of really appreciating what that means. And so one thing that I did was it was a sailor. They really wanted to go to school for like the past year or two, and this was before. I was their devil, but this is something that would be critical for them in their career progression and for one reason or another, they weren't able to attend the school. But I did everything that I could because I knew like this is something that they really wanted to do, and so that required me lobbying to my department head and higher ups on some occasions, and then also putting things in place where we would still be able to do what we needed to without that.
Speaker 2:Yes, this was a critical member of our team, but one person doesn't, you know, make or break the team, so we had to adjust and be able to operate with that person being there for an extended period of time. And then that person went and completed the school and they, like you know, decided to stay in the Navy because of that, because they were doing something that only, like, gave them fulfillment, but it also served the needs of the Navy by being able to acquire a critical skill. So that was something that really, like, stuck out to me was just like the ability to be able to impact somebody's life and help them to achieve their goals and then, like, other people see that and they'd be like, okay, like I see how happy this person is or how fulfilled they are and they want to, you know, feel that same feeling as well. So, as leaders, I think that's our responsibility to do whatever we can to make sure that we're allowing our sailors to reach their full potential.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that big time. Right, Like that one, that one for me is so important. Like when you say you're going to do something, it's like follow through and do it because you have a really real ability to make a positive impact on someone's life. Right, like you're saying, on that one, there are a lot of people who will say like, yes, oh, yeah, I'll do whatever I can to help you. But then when it comes down to like actually reviewing their package with them, getting the shit ready, helping them with the application or whatever, like whatever information needs to go up, and then being their advocate, right, like going to the department head, going to the captain and recommending that this person get an opportunity to go on these orders, to go to that school. Right, and having a plan built with your chief to say, hey, we're going to be able to accommodate for the fact that this sailor is going to be gone for X period of time. Right, like that's on you.
Speaker 1:Like there's a lot of legwork that goes on at the divo and chief level to present that opportunity, to make that opportunity come to life for a sailor, right, and all of those actions that you're taking, all of the things that you're doing to help that like is going to present that opportunity to again a young sailor in a way that may make them stay in the Navy right, because they know that they're part of an organization that's going to help them grow as a professional and a person and it's going to take care of them right, help them advance, help them make more money, help them, like, get where they want to go in life right.
Speaker 1:And so it's really cool to hear you say that, right, and those are the things right. Those are the things that you just don't necessarily comprehend at times as a midshipman, but like, yeah, you going up and having the courage to go, like, advocate for your sailor in front of the department head or the captain, right, like that makes a real impact in their life. That makes a real impact in their life. So, so cool, so cool. And so you kind of first tour done, do you move to a second ship, or kind of, what was your progression after your time in Pearl?
Speaker 2:So I took advantage of the option that we have as junior officers, doing our sea tours, where you can feed up on the same ship. So my first tour was first Lieutenant and then I decided to fleet up because I really enjoyed the ship, the people, the leadership and then, like, once I found out we were going on deployment to, that was something that was that like convinced me to stay because I would also get more experience that I didn't necessarily have on my first tour. So I decided to fleet up to become DCA.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you mind just explaining a little bit too, when you use that term fleet up, like just a full explanation of what you mean by that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the Navy jargon, get it to me. So fleeting up is pretty much where you have an opportunity to step up into your next career position. So, the way that it works, you have X number of jobs available as a second tour, divo, and so you go to your leadership and say, based on the timing of when I'm expected to depart the ship, these are the positions that's going to be open. These are the ones that I'm interested in. Would you be willing to endorse me staying on to serve as DCA as well?
Speaker 2:And DCA is Damage Control Assistant or Anti-Submarine Warfare Officer or any of the other second division officer tours that we have. And then the captain most times they say yes, and then you just are able to go to the schools that's required and then return to the ship. Are able to go to the schools that's required and then return to the ship. And then, like a benefit of doing that is, you don't necessarily have to move to another ship or move duty stations, you can just stay at the same place. You already built rapport with the crew and everything you know, like the status of the ship, things that the ship does well, things that the ship doesn't necessarily do well. You understand the maintenance community what a duty station is. So it's a lot of benefits of being able to fleet up to a position on that same ship.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. And then, just for people listening too, you may hear it like if your sons or daughters are talking about the fact that, like their XO is fleeting up or like all these terms. Again, it's this advancement where you're staying at the same command. Exactly A lot of times in a lot of communities, the XO on a ship will become the captain of the ship and so they are fleeting up. They're staying on the same ship, but they're moving from the XO role the executive officer number two in command to actually taking command of the ship. The XO role the executive officer number two in command to actually taking command of the ship Happens in aviation squadrons a lot of the time as well. Right, like the XO will fleet up and become the captain or the skipper of the squadron.
Speaker 1:Some Marines do it a little bit differently. Usually you're an XO, then you go off for like a staff duty or something, then you take command of a different submarine, but like this term fleet up just references exactly what Rex was talking about Like you're just going to advance to the next rank or the next tour, your second follow on tour is a JO at the same command. So very cool. And so, as you're approaching your time at the end of your second tour in Pearl. There, after you fleet it up, how did you discover the FSEP program? So now we're, I guess, fsep right With the P being program. But how did you discover FSEP? Do you mind giving a rundown of what that is and even what your thought process was in like am I going to get out, am I going to stay in? And then how this kind of came into your knowledge and led to you eventually taking advantage of this?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think it were a few things that was at play that allowed me to make that decision. So to zoom out a little bit, f-celf, or the Fleet Scholars Education Program, is a part of the Navy-wide initiative that's called Talent Management. And Talent Management is intended in order to retain officers, especially like the best talent, is intended in order to retain officers, especially like the best talent, in order for them to serve follow-on sea tours after their shore duty, to try and keep that talent within the Navy. So I would say FSEP is probably the most desirable program under talent management.
Speaker 2:And so the Navy, like does a good job, I will say, of sending detailers to different fleet concentration areas and they visit different ships within that duty station and then they are able to explain the different opportunities, whether it be career progression, where you're expected to start your department head seat tour at this time this is how long you can have on shore duty after your first and second devo tours and then they also talk about some of the special programs that's available to you. So talent management you have the Fleet Scholars Education Program. You can work at a RTC unit. You can do tours of industry where you work at a private sector company for a year and then it's a few other things where you can work with foreign navies. So it's a really good program where you can really round out your experience outside of the traditional path that some officers take. So I would say I probably found out about FSEP when the detailers came, probably halfway through my first tour.
Speaker 1:Yep. And what was the? What was the process like for you in determining? Because, because, again, there are some things that come with FSEP. Again, when you go and actually apply for FSEP, you're doing so knowing if you get accepted and get into a program, you're going to have a service obligation payback as well. So what, for you, in this decision-making matrix, led you to actually decide? Decide like, yes, this is what I want to do and these are the things that I want to pursue if I get accepted into the program.
Speaker 2:Yeah for sure.
Speaker 2:So for me, one thing that I really wanted to pursue was being able to have an experience outside of the Navy, because the Navy sometimes it can be a vacuum where people think the same way or it's the old saying this is the way that we've always done it, and the innovation sometimes can be stifled because of that.
Speaker 2:So by being able to do FSEP, where you are able to go in residence to a graduate school for a civilian institution, I thought that was just a really good opportunity that aligned up with not only my goals within the Navy but then outside.
Speaker 2:But I will say I made the decision based on the fact that, yes, I have more commitment at sea, but I enjoyed my time as a so much that I was like this is a win-win for me, because I get to get my graduate school education paid for, but then I also get to use the things that I learned with that and then take it back out in the fleet lead sailors, and then it's so many paths that you can use because once you get your MBA, you can pursue something called the financial management AQD and AQD, and an AQD is Advanced Qualification Designation, and that allows you to qualify for jobs that most people normally wouldn't be able to if they didn't have that specific designation. So it was just like opened up so many doors for me that I thought it was a clear decision, like I definitely have to pursue this if this is something that's available to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and so you still haven't, like, got the cat out of the bag. Because it's just such a flex. I want to brag for you. Do you mind talking about what program you actually did get into and what the process was for that? Was it like you get into the school first and then you apply to FSEP in the Navy, get into the school first and then you apply to FSEP in the Navy, or do you apply to FSEP in the Navy first, knowing that you're applying to a couple of different civilian education programs? Like, what's the timeline of how that works and for your specific situation, do you mind running it down and how it ended up for you? Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:So just to provide a little bit more context in regards to like the different degrees and everything that you can pursue under FSEP, to like the different degrees and everything that you can pursue under FSEP I think it's very important to make that clear. So each year they have a message called come out the NAB admin and it pretty much lists all the information regarding FSEP for that upcoming year, with the application process is like how many people from each community is eligible to get selected and then a different fields of study that you can pursue. So currently, right now, you can pursue a degree in public policy, I believe, data science, technology and maybe engineering, I believe, and so you apply for the program knowing that, okay, these are the things that's available to me, and then the Navy either say yay or nay, and a lot of things that makes you a competitive candidate is how well you did on your first tour. So anybody who is interested in these talent management programs, like you, really have to hit the ground running once you get to your ship and it's like some people like the learning curve may be a little bit slower or not as steep, based on the command that you go to or a position that you put into, but you still have to eventually perform at a top level in order to be considered for programs like this. And so by me performing well in my first two, I was eligible to do FSEP.
Speaker 2:And then I found out September of 22 that I was approved. So you apply, I believe, in June or July, and then they deliberate for a couple of months and then you find out in September and then you're like off to the races at that point. So I applied to schools in December. So depending on what program that you're interested in, it's obviously different deadlines. So that's just one of the things regarding due diligence that you have to do before applying for FSEP, to see if the timelines match up, because it's like it may be a situation where the deadline is before, like the school's deadline is before FSEP deadline and you need to apply, and then if you get in but you don't get FSEP, then it's kind of tough.
Speaker 2:And then if you get in but you don't get FSEP, then it's kind of tough and then you have another decision to make. But then, vice versa, where you find out about FSEP, then at least you know you have that in the bag, that's guaranteed. And then you have to tailor your approach regarding what schools you're going to apply to after you're notified about the program. And what schools did you apply to? Yeah, so I applied to pretty much Harvard Business School, wharton University of Chicago, booth, yale School of Management and a few other programs, and then ultimately, I decided to attend Harvard Business School. I just thought that just lined up with everything I wanted to do.
Speaker 1:And, to be honest, it was always a childhood dream to attend Harvard. Yeah, that's incredible. Again, I'm going to brag for you Again, coming from Georgia, big family, all this to come to the Naval Academy, graduate from the Naval Academy, go and serve as a surface warfare officer, then go, while still an active duty Navy lieutenant, and go get your MBA from Harvard. Like you are a Naval Academy graduate and you are an HBS graduate and you're still continuing along your path in the United States Navy. Like that's incredible, right, it's incredible. And like you're saying the Navy's paying for this right, like they're paying for the entirety of your graduate education. Correct, yeah, and including like BAH and stuff. Like how's that, how's that work out from an actual like money and logistics standpoint?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so no student loans, nothing like that. So you get in your housing allowance. You're pretty much being paid to be a student, to go to school. So it's like the best program going in my eyes.
Speaker 1:Well, that's, that's what I'm saying, right? Like? Not only are you not paying to go to school there, right, in terms of like, right, the Navy is covering tuition, but the Navy is still paying you. You are still an active duty Lieutenant, right? So, instead of getting out of the Navy and going to Harvard business school, where you're actively not making money for two years and paying to go to school, you are both getting paid You're probably what with the Boston BAH north of six figures to go and get your MBA from Harvard for free, Like that was your situation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. I mean I can't say anything else because you put it so perfectly and it's just really a blessing. Like people are surprised when I tell them or they ask are you still getting paid? And I was yes, I'm still getting paid. I'm being paid to go to school, which is unheard of, for instance, just to give perspective. So it's other people or other of my classmates that were being sponsored by their previous jobs, so they pay for them to go to school, but they're not getting paid actively while they're in school. They don't necessarily have the education debt but they still sometimes, depending on how much money they have saved up, they still have to dig in and apply for student loans or whatever the case may be, to have financing to get through the next couple of years. Business school is expensive. Most graduate schools are expensive, especially if you have a family. That's just like something else that you have to consider.
Speaker 1:So I can't advertise and publicize it enough Getting into FSEP and being able to get my grad degree was the best decision I ever could have made, 100%.
Speaker 1:I'm glad we're here telling your story Because, again, this is something even when I was in the Navy, I saw the message, I saw the NAB admin, like, I saw this FCEP thing but I had never heard of it before, right, and so, like again, just to highlight these opportunities, because again, we see a ton of our friends right who have gotten out of the Navy and applied to business schools and are there, which is awesome, like they're on a great trajectory of life, right, but, like you're saying, we're in a spot where a lot of them are, you know, because, again, this is actually a good Naval Academy specific discussion.
Speaker 1:I want to talk about this with you and have you chime in Our GI bill counter doesn't start until our service academy obligation ends, right, so your first five years in the service don't contribute to your time towards a GI bill, right?
Speaker 1:So if you're a person like me who got out, like right, at the five and a half year mark, like I don't have 100% of a GI bill, right, I got like a couple. Like I got like 50% because I did, you know, more than three months after my service obligation but, like a lot of the young JOs that transition out, are paying to go to business school, right. And so this is one of these unique things because, like you're saying, you're in a good spot where not only are you going to school, where the Navy is covering tuition, you're getting paid, but now you're done with your service academy obligation. So now your time in the Navy and all the benefits associated with that are continuing to count up, right. So do you mind kind of running through like what your thought process there as well was in relation to now the GI Bill as it relates to you or your future family, correct?
Speaker 2:So for me, like I love education and I'm a strong advocate for that, so always like taking advantage of whatever benefits I have available to me to be able to pursue further education I think is important. So by me staying in I'm able to get that 100 percent for the GI Bill. So just say, for instance, I want to go to school after I leave the Navy. Just say, for instance, I want to go to school after I leave the Navy, that option is available to me. But then say, for instance, my spouse, she wants to get a degree, or she wants to get a grad degree, or one of my children, that's available to me. That it necessarily wouldn't have been available for me if I decided to get out, as you mentioned, right after my Naval Academy contract was up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%, three years. Three years is what you need of, like, activity time to get 100% of the GI Bill, right. But again, if you're going to the Naval Academy and you get out at the five-year mark, that's technically like zero, because the five years was a service obligation that you owed from the Academy, right. So you basically need to go to the eight-year mark if you want to get 100%. But, like you're saying, since you went back to school and since you have a little bit of a payback for FSEP, you're going to be in past the eight-year mark. But as a result, like again, you're going to be an HBS graduate and now you're going to have 100% of the GI Bill that you will, if you wanted to, again, like you're saying, utilize for yourself or transfer it to your spouse or your future kids, right, and so like dude, right.
Speaker 1:Like when we talk about taking advantage of all of the incredible opportunities that exist in the military, right, like that's exactly what you're doing to set yourself up for life, right, like to just take advantage of all these incredible opportunities. So it's just, it's awesome, right, it's awesome from a high level. I want to talk a little bit about your experience now actually at HBS, which is since you're active duty. Does anything change about the program or are you just like a full, full-time student, civilian, like what is your day-to-day kind of experience like as a student during during FSEP?
Speaker 2:For sure. So as a student at HBS as part of FSEP, the only real military obligations that I had was you have a random urinalysis and then you have the yearly physical test, which is the PRT. So you're administratively attached to a RTC unit in the area, but outside of that you're pretty much a civilian Like yes, you still have to follow Navy regulations and UCMJ. You just can't let all the weight loose, but you have a lot more freedom than you normally would be afforded because you don't necessarily fall within the military environment that you would be in a lot of other places.
Speaker 1:Yep, no 100%. And as it relates to again, I know during a lot of business school summers there were internships and work that you do. Are you able to take an internship with a company? Can you do it but not get paid, or do you get paid? How does that work from a summer internship perspective while you're a student at HBS?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's definitely unique in that perspective because a lot of my classmates they were compensated for the internships that they did, but given that I was compensated by the Navy, they specifically delineated that you're not able to be compensated twice, which is understandable.
Speaker 2:So I had to find an opportunity where I would be able to gain private sector experience, with that being in place, where I wouldn't be able to be paid.
Speaker 2:So I was able to get an internship at Foot Locker within the operations department and it was amazing, like got real world exposure at a Fortune 500 company where I was able to touch different aspects of the business. So, to be honest, and the more I'm like thinking or talking out loud about this, like I mentioned earlier regarding the tourism industry, where a person is part of talent management, they can go work at a private sector company, like I was able to do that over the course of three and a half, four months where I was able to be immersed within a company and be assigned projects and have to report to my reporting senior and tell them okay, I recommend X, y and Z, or this is the perspective I have on this particular situation. So being able to do that and see how people think in a private sector. I thought was very interesting. And another thing I thought caught my eye was probably how similar some of the decision making is in the private sector compared to the military.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no for sure. I mean eye-opening experiences, relationships with civilian you know counterparts in that world as well, what they're doing insight into industry, all those different aspects. Now again, we talk about a lot of the great. There's always the quote unquote catch, which isn't much of a catch, like you said, if you do enjoy your job as a surface warfare officer. But what is the payback obligation for being accepted to and taking advantage of this program?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you have three years of sea duty and then whatever additional time you have for the training prior to that, because currently right now I'm attending department head school and so this is a seven month school and then I have a follow on school. That's a few more months and then once I report to my ship, that's when my seat time starts. So, looking all in, it's going to be about four years.
Speaker 1:So that's probably what most people time-wise will look like is four years from the time that you graduate to fulfill your obligation of the additional time that was incurred by getting your degree. Yeah, and you went to Harvard Business.
Speaker 2:School, fsep in general. What a year like four and a half five in the Navy. Yeah, so it was about year five, five and some change like five years and three months, something like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so your, your, your year five and six in the navy is graduate school, like you're saying. You graduate and then you're basically four years more or less to the end of your obligation. Right, and I'm just speaking about this logistically a lot of people, if you want it. But you're saying you can still make a career out of the Navy, which is incredible. Right, and we need a lot of people to continue to stay in and assume command and take all these things and continue to make a great impact. But even if that wasn't your dream or your desire, like you said, you could do basically a 10 or 11 year career after payback from from FSEP. Be a 33 year old with zero debt, a Naval Academy degree and in a degree from HBS Right Like that. That is a real option that you have. Right, like that's crazy. It really is.
Speaker 2:And that's like one thing, like how I always approach life, is, if I decide to stay in the military, I want to make sure that I'm prepared as possible so that I'm eligible for whatever position that I'm interested in.
Speaker 2:And the same thing for the private sector, where I'm just making myself as competitive as possible.
Speaker 2:And so it's programs like these and it's unfortunate that a lot of people don't necessarily know about these programs because, like the past couple of years, people come up to me and it was like, oh, I didn't know this program existed or I wish I would have known about that, and it's like, you know, it's not much I can do for them at the time, which is like why I'm on this right now, so that I can try and spread the word.
Speaker 2:But it's really so many things even outside of this that it can really enhance your overall profile, whether you decide to stay in the military or you get out. Definitely to your point, if I do decide to get out at the 11-year mark, I'm super competitive and, for instance, a lot of the veterans, so the people who had already got out when they entered HBS, they were around the 31, 32-year-old point when they graduated, so it's not like I'm necessarily behind them as far as career progression in a private sector. So it's just another thing to consider, and each situation is going to be unique, but you just have to make the best decision for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. I love this. This is such a fun discussion and, highlighting these really cool things, I do want to just again make a thing.
Speaker 1:We've been talking a lot about Harvard Business School because that was your experience.
Speaker 1:Right, it doesn't have to be business school, right, but like you could apply to FSEP and then go get your master's in computer science or data science, or, like you're saying public policy, you go to the Kennedy School, right, like there are a lot of different opportunities that exist.
Speaker 1:So this isn't like a business school or nothing type program, right, like there are a lot of opportunities to take to put you on the path that you most want to be on, right. And so, again, just to highlight that, like I want this whole discussion, as exciting as it's been, for people to know, like, yeah, it doesn't have to be business school or nothing, right, like it's just, it's just one of the options. It's just one of the options. And so you know, rex, just to just to turn this again, if you're talking directly to a midshipman now, you know in this moment who may be interested in graduate school, just wrapping this all up, like what would you tell them to consider and what advice would you give them to maximize their opportunity and chance to like take advantage of a program like FSEP For sure.
Speaker 2:So being at the academy I mean you know like it's challenging. You have so many competing yeah, super hard. You know like it's challenging. You have so many competing yeah, super hard, so many competing priorities. That's a drain on your time and you're trying to manage everything.
Speaker 2:And academics is like one of those things that you really have to focus on. But, depending on whether you're involved in sports or clubs or whatever the case may be, it may not be as high on the list as it probably should be. So one thing that I would definitely recommend is do as well as you can academically, because that will set you apart further down the road. So, going to the academy, you already have a leg up, because the academy is seen similar to Ivy Leagues as far as the prestige and the rigor and all of those things. So you're already at that level. But then if you excel while you're there, then that just makes you even more competitive if you do decide to get a grad degree. So that would be like my main thing is do the best that you can regarding academics, because that's going to open up so many more doors for you down the road. And then something else that I would recommend is definitely find a mentor that did something similar to what you have done.
Speaker 2:So to provide perspective, when I was at HBS I had a lot of midshipmen reach out to me and they're curious and they ask how did you get to this point?
Speaker 2:Or can you hop on a quick call so we can discuss X, y and Z, so that I'm making sure that I'm taking the right steps. Like don't be afraid to reach out, like everybody's not going to respond but you're miss shipman, and like similar to how it was at hbs, like when you're an hbs student, like almost anybody's going to respond to your initial email. It's the same thing like uh, at the naval academy, where you have so many people that's willing to sow and give back to that community. So don't be afraid to reach out, like some students did with me, so that you can make an informed decision and see like, ok, maybe this is not the path that I want to go, or maybe, like it gives you more conviction to go down that path. So that would just be another thing. Just make sure you find somebody who's done something that you've already done, just to have more information on making a decision.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. Where can people find you If they're listening to this and they do want to reach out to you and ask more in depth about your experience? How can people reach out and find?
Speaker 2:you? Yeah, definitely so. Linkedin under Rex Willis, r-e-x and then Willis. Pretty easy to find. It's going to be HBS MBA Surface Workflow Officer and you reach out to me and yeah headlining is crazy. But I'll be more than happy to assist anybody who have questions or looking for advice about anything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and obviously this path for you has been life-changing and potentially like generational changing, in an extremely positive way. So what would be your best recruiting pitch?
Speaker 2:Again, if there's a young man or woman out there who may be interested in the service academy, about why they should consider and really work towards the service academy education, if they can, for sure, so for me, like this has been, I can only imagine that it's going to be life-changing, not only for myself but for generations that's coming after me, and I can already see that in my nieces and nephews, because they're being exposed to this, because they're coming to visit me or they're going to my graduations and places that people, where I'm coming from they don't necessarily get an opportunity to walk on those campuses or be surrounded by the people that is normally associated with these institutions. So it's like one. It's like providing that exposure and providing that access, I would say. And then even my younger sister. She necessarily didn't have plans to attend a service academy but then she attended the Coast Guard Academy after she saw that I went to the Naval Academy and saw how things could positively impact her life. So when you're thinking about holistically what it looks like regarding the impact that the Naval Academy or any service academy can have on your life, it opens up so many doors. Like I already mentioned, you get access to people that you normally wouldn't be able to associate or reach out to the network. I can't tell you how many times the network has benefited me, and it's not even only the Naval Academy Network. I mean it's the whole Military Academy Network. Like some of my best friends at HBS was from other service academies and they like looked out, you know, for me if it was something that I had specifically about a career decision or just assistance with schoolwork, whatever the case may be, those were people that were able to be in my corner or vouch for me if I needed somebody to provide a recommendation for something.
Speaker 2:So that's another aspect. And then you also just get real life experience that a lot of your peers who go to civilian institutions don't necessarily get. Being able to drive a $2 billion warship is like unfathomable, but then it's also like very sobering at the same time, because you like responsible, like when you're standing on the bridge as officer of the deck, you have 300 people and it's the middle of the night and you have all these ships surrounding you. You have to make sure that you're doing your job because you have all these shifts surrounding you. You have to make sure that you're doing your job because you have all of those people's lives in your hand. So it makes you understand. Okay, I'm actually making an impact, what I'm doing is meaningful and I think it's far and few between the opportunities that you will have to be able to have something like that.
Speaker 1:Love it, Love every bit of it. Man. Thank you so much for joining us today and sharing this insight in this part of your journey and this experience that you've had. You have anything else that you want to leave with the Academy Insider audience at all? Anything before we wrap up?
Speaker 2:Yeah, one thing I would probably say is just don't be afraid to ask for something. Saying that I use often is closed mouth, don't get fed. So if it's something that you're interested in, just go for it. And the worst somebody can do is say no and then you move on to the next thing. But if somebody tells you, oh, it's no way that they're approved, that, or you really don't have anybody in your corner supporting you, just dismiss that and go off of your gut instinct and if it's meant to be, it's meant to be and it's going to be. Multiple situations and even in my career where I had to advocate for myself and ask for things that people told me I probably shouldn't have, but it allowed me to be in a position that I am now. So don't be afraid to ask for more responsibilities, opportunities for somebody to mentor you, whatever the case may be, because on balance, it's going to serve you well in the long run.
Speaker 1:Straight up. I double doubling down on that right. The coolest experience I had in the Navy, in the military at large, was getting to compete in the military world games. I had in the Navy, in the military at large, was getting to compete in the military world games. I had a bunch of department heads and like kind of more senior officers saying there's no way, like there's no way, like we need you here, right, like I don't know what to tell you, grant, like this is going to be too much. You're asking for a full month TAV to go play basketball, right, like all these different stuff.
Speaker 1:But I'm saying sometimes you just got to ask, right, like I went to my captain, I ran it by him, I told him about this awesome opportunity I had. As a result, I got to go represent the United States armed forces and play basketball in China, right For the military world games. And so you know whether it's that, whether it's an opportunity to take advantage of the F-STAT program, whether it's an opportunity to go to another school or training or whatever it is in your specific situation. In case, like you're saying, you just got to ask, right, close mouths, don't get fed. Like, if you want to eat, like. You got to ask right, you got to make it happen and so love every bit of that. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Rex man, thanks so much for again joining us today and sharing your insight. Again, for anyone who wants to follow up and talk a little bit more to Rex or just like again, just pick his brain about some of these awesome things that he's doing Again, just find him on LinkedIn, rex Willis, and we'll get you in touch there. But appreciate it, rex. Again, thanks so much, man, and to the Academy Insider audience appreciate y'all. Please reach out with any questions. Otherwise, I really hope you enjoyed this episode. Have a great day and we'll see you next week. Thank you, grant. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Academy Insider Podcast. I really hope you liked it, enjoyed it and learned something during this time. If you did, please feel free to like and subscribe or leave a comment about the episode. We really appreciate to hear your feedback about everything and continue to make Academy Insider an amazing service that guides, serves and supports midshipmen, future midshipmen and their families. Thank you.
