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The Academy Insider Podcast - Your Guide to The Naval Academy Experience
The mission of Academy Insider is to guide, serve, and support Midshipmen, future Midshipmen, and their families. Through the perspective of a community of former graduates and Naval Academy insiders, this podcast will help you learn about life at the United States Naval Academy in Annapolis. Through our shared experiences, Academy Insider guides families through the anxiety and frustration caused by lack of understanding, misinformation, and confusion. This platform is designed to better relationships between midshipmen and their loved ones. This podcast is not affiliated with the United States Naval Academy, the United States Navy or Department of Defense. The thoughts and opinions are exclusively those of your host and his guests.
The Academy Insider Podcast - Your Guide to The Naval Academy Experience
#067 Top Gun Maverick Behind the Scenes: Inside Information from a Navy Jet Pilot
Lieutenant Commander Amy Heflin, callsign BACON, joins us to share her incredible journey from West Texas to the cockpit of an F-18. Discover what it was like to fly jets with actors in the backseat during the filming of Top Gun 2: Maverick. Amy's dedication and skill shine through as she takes us through her rigorous training in Pensacola and her exhilarating experiences as a Navy aviator stationed in Japan.
Get ready to explore the life of a Navy jet pilot with Amy's vivid portrayal of deployment challenges, the thrill of catapult launches, and the camaraderie that defines naval aviation. Through personal anecdotes, she reveals the delicate balance between professional demands and personal life, detailing the highs and lows of extended time at sea. Amy also provides a behind-the-scenes look at her unique role in the production of Top Gun 2, where the blend of Navy precision and Hollywood magic brought the film's intense flight scenes to life.
Lastly, we delve into the collaborative process between the Navy and Hollywood, emphasizing the safety protocols and authenticity that made Top Gun 2: Maverick a cinematic masterpiece. Amy's stories about flying with actors, including Tom Cruise, and navigating the challenges of filming high-intensity scenes are as inspiring as they are entertaining. This episode is a treasure trove of insights for anyone fascinated by naval aviation and the making of an iconic film. Tune in for an unforgettable conversation with Lieutenant Commander Amy Heflin.
The mission of Academy Insider is to guide, serve, and support Midshipmen, future Midshipmen, and their families.
Grant Vermeer your host is the person who started it all. He is the founder of Academy Insider and the host of The Academy Insider podcast and the USNA Property Network Podcast. He was a recruited athlete which brought him to Annapolis where he was a four year member of the varsity basketball team. He was a cyber operations major and commissioned into the Cryptologic Warfare Community. He was stationed at Fort Meade and supported the Subsurface Direct Support mission.
He separated from the Navy in 2023 and now owns The Vermeer Group, a boutique residential real estate company that specializes in serving the United States Naval Academy community PCSing to California & Texas.
We are here to be your guide through the USNA experience.
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Welcome to Season 2 of the Academy Insider Podcast. Academy Insider is a 501c3 nonprofit organization that serves midshipmen, future midshipmen and their families. At its core, this podcast is designed to bring together a community of Naval Academy graduates and those affiliated with the United States Naval Academy in order to tell stories and provide a little bit of insight into what life at the Naval Academy is really like. I hope you enjoy it. Thank you so much for listening and reach out if you ever have any questions. Hey everyone, and welcome back to the Academy Insider Podcast. In today's episode we're covering fan favorite topics the first naval jet aviation. So if you're looking for a little bit of a deep dive into what life as an F-18 pilot is like, both on shore and at sea sea you're gonna get a little bit of insight in this episode. And then probably even the cooler part is we're gonna get a behind the scenes into the filming of the Top Gun 2 Maverick series from a naval pilot, a Navy jet pilot, f-18 pilot, who was filming with the actors. She was actually flying the planes with the actors in the backseat, and so if you want an insight into some of the scenes that you see in Top Gun 2 movie in the Top Gun 2 movie flying around, then you're going to love this episode. It's a cool insight into naval aviation at large, with a focus on the jet community, and then who doesn't love Top Gun 2? So if you want a little bit of behind the scenes, then check out this episode.
Speaker 1:If you're new to Academy Insider because this topic may bring some people in I'm really excited for you to be here. This channel, in this entity, academy Insider, it's a nonprofit that's all about educating and supporting people about the Naval Academy journey. So if you have any interest in the United States Naval Academy, a service academy in general or serving in the United States Armed Forces again, I'm really all about providing radical transparency, but also with a very positive spin, because I do believe the service academies can be a generational changing opportunity. So feel free to reach out to me anytime. I hope you really enjoy the episode. Thank you so much and have a great listen.
Speaker 1:The Academy Insider podcast is sponsored by the Vermeer Group, a residential real estate company that serves the United States Naval Academy community and other select clientele in both California and Texas. If I can ever answer a real estate related question for you or connect you with a trusted Academy affiliated agent in the market which you're in. Please reach out to me directly at grant at the Vermeer groupcom. You can also reach out to me on my LinkedIn page grant for me or and I'd be happy to respond to you there. Thank you so much, and now let's get back to the episode.
Speaker 1:Hey everyone, and welcome back to the Academy insider podcast. Amy, thank you so much for taking the time to join us today and sharing a little bit of your insight about being a jet pilot, but also a fun little caveat to that, which is your experience in relation to the Top Gun 2 Maverick movie. So we're going to dive all into that. But before we do get started, if you don't mind, just tell the Academy Insider audience again a little bit about you where you're from, how you ended up at the Academy, what you did in the Navy and now currently where you're at.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, thanks, Grant, for having me. I really appreciate it. So, like you said, I got out of the Navy in 2022. I'm Lieutenant Commander Amy Heflin, callsign Bacon. I grew up in West Texas, so in Lubbock, texas, and I just grew up around aviation and the Blue Angels and the Thunderbirds came out to Lubbock all the time when I was growing up and that just really set that seed. And then, also, growing up near in West Texas, we grew up near the Air Force Academy, so kind of got to know a little bit about the service academies and what they had to offer. Next thing, you know, attended summer seminar, fell in love with the Naval Academy my brother is two years ahead of me at the Naval Academy, so I knew a little bit more than than others did, going into it and and that's kind of where that took off from, so class of 2011. And then from there, went into the Naval Aviation Pipeline. So I became a jet pilot, flew the F-18 Echoes in the fleet and I was stationed out in Japan.
Speaker 1:Very cool. And did you know at the Academy, did you know that you wanted to be a pilot first off? Or like what was you know getting and arriving at that spot that you knew aviation was the key? It sounds like again a big part of your growing up. So I assume the answer is yes. But then from that point is, was it also always jets, or were you interested in kind of doing a P3 or a helicopter route, and what was your pathway to flying jets?
Speaker 2:So it was. It was a bit of a roller coaster actually, because I I knew that I wanted to go to the service Academy. I thought I knew I wanted to fly jets. And I got there, plebe summer, plebe year and I had this, I guess, realization. I was like I, I want to, I want to serve the sailors, and I thought to me all of a sudden, being a pilot sounded like so selfish. It sounded like you just get in a jet and you take off and you do all these cool things. But I wanted to serve with sailors and so I thought for a moment I was like I'm going to go be a SWO and I'm going to drive boats and I'm going to lead sailors.
Speaker 2:Thankfully, through the summer training I did like a YP cruise. I was on board the USS Whidbey Island for a month during my, my youngster summer and I realized I just had as much passion as I had for leading sailors and wanting to be a part of that I had. I had zero passion for, like living on a boat full time and driving. So then so I was. Thankfully, I came back to the aviation side of house.
Speaker 2:I decided, you know, maybe becoming a helicopter pilot sounded really cool because I wanted to be a SAR pilot. I thought that would. It was a was kind of a noble endeavor and something that sounded really interesting. And again, thankfully, I had a aviation cruise first year or first year summer, leading into first year, and I was with a helicopter squadron and just everything just kept driving me back to fixed wing jet aviation and I just realized I did not have that drive for helicopter aviation but again, thanks to summer training, I learned that aviation is not just flying jets, flying helicopters. You are still leading sailors, you're still in the trenches, you still have ground jobs just like everybody else, and so it allowed me to realize all that was melding together back towards jet aviation.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And when you make that decision in your own mind like, hey, I want to fly jets, but if there's a perspective like there's a high school student out there who's really interested in the aviation pipeline, is it more than just your desire to fly jets, kind of what's the decision making process or the factors that go into what platform you're actually going to fly? You know during your time as a student naval aviator, what is that pipeline to arriving there?
Speaker 2:It is, it's a it's. There's so much that goes into it and, like anything in the Navy, a lot of it's timing. So you have to arrive in the pipeline when jet pilots are needed. I mean, I would say right now we're kind of at a point where jet pilots are needed, so now is a good time. But you go into the pipeline and you just from day one, you need to be studying, you need to make the grades, because what they do is they assign you an NSS, a Navy Standard Score, and it's on a bell curve and just like anything else we do at the academy or in school in general, is you're ranked against your peers and so if you want to go jet aviation and you want to have your first pick, you need to have the best ranking you possibly can, because they're only going to take so many 100%.
Speaker 1:I thought that piece was super interesting. It's a conversation I've had, so my wife is also a pilot, right, and it's it's really interesting how many student naval aviators will do the Pensacola experience differently, right.
Speaker 1:Like there are some people who are quite literally like I'm locking myself in that building and like being top of my class in flight school is like, that is my, that is my end, all be all goal. There's other people who are like yeah, I just want to fly and like and have a good time and it's it's very serious because you get there and and I was a nerd I locked myself in the room in Pensacola.
Speaker 2:I went out on a couple of weekends and enjoyed myself, but I locked myself down and I studied my rear end on Some of my buddies at the time did not and what we found out was this doesn't always happen. It doesn't happen every year, but sometimes the Navy has to go. You know, we have too many pilots. So here's this NSS, and if you don't meet this score, you're transitioning back to another career choice.
Speaker 1:And I had a couple of buddies go through that process and it was. It was very difficult, yeah.
Speaker 2:Not ideal, not ideal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a good, it's a good story, it's a good anecdote in taking it seriously, got to take it seriously and then you know you had mentioned kind of earlier in this decision-making process how I kind of want to go maybe think about SWO, because I really want to lead sailors, and you started to discover you do get that aspect in the aviation community as well. Before we even jump into the fun of the movie stuff, do you mind just talking about again being an F-18 pilot and what some of the really awesome parts were Like from the day-to-day, whether it be again deployment, your actual schedule, the work-life aspect?
Speaker 2:What were some of the amazing parts of being a jet pilot? Yeah, so right out of the gate with all things Navy. You obviously travel and you get to see the world, you get to do all those things, and so one of the coolest, but probably most frantic times in my life was when I found out that I was getting selected to go fly the Echoes out of Japan, and so what they do is you qualify on the boat If you qualify what they call prior. So now you're in a position that you could get selected to either immediately deploy or go to one of our FDNF squadrons, so forward deployed naval forces, those that are attached to the carriers that are in Japan. So now, so I happen to qualify for that and they're like all right, you have 10 days to be in Japan. And they're like, all right, you have 10 days to be in Japan, pack up all your stuff and go, because the carrier is about to leave and this qual that you have at the boat only lasts so long before you need to be landing on the boat again. I was like, okay, so frantically, call my family, come out here, help me pack up. They did, and my mom is a rock star Did an amazing job getting me packed up. Pack up, they did. And my mom is a rock star did an amazing job getting me packed up. But literally in 10 days I went from being a student naval aviator, just finishing learning how to fly the F-18, to climbing Mount Suribachi in Iwo Jima with a bunch of my sailors that I just met and it was like the craziest experience to be, like looking out over the beach. You know that the Marines stormed, and so those types of experiences you will not get, and it was. It's so much fun. There's obviously I mean the cat shots and and the landing on a carrier. It was just an absolute rollercoaster of a ride that I I love and miss dearly. So those things are very fun.
Speaker 2:Some of the negative sides, I guess, is the is the deployment schedule. Is the deployment schedule? It's very difficult to be a jet pilot, as it is with a lot of other career choices that we make. So our FD&F schedule was six months on, six months off. We would be underway for six-ish months, we'd be home for six-ish months. But when you're home, you're going to debt. You're going to go to Guam, you're going to go. We would every other year we'd fly back to the States and go to Fallon and that makes for a rough schedule. But man, you're go, go, go and it is so much fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, absolutely, and again, I think that's just. It's important in the transparency of the process for people who are considering this career path, because saying deployment is one thing and people always think about deployment. You know the six to nine month period where you know you're out to sea, you're away from home and you're doing all this stuff, but when you're back, like you're saying it's not like you're fully back right.
Speaker 1:You're not back Right and you know again. Just another anecdote Again. My wife is currently in her deployment workup phase and she's out to sea right Like deployment, quote, unquote. Deployment doesn't happen until you know, likely early next year, but she's underway right now. She goes on another like month and a half debt here towards the end of September, right and then, and then they're in Fallon Nevada for training, right Like there's. There's a lot of stuff that goes into the process that can be very time consuming, even outside of the actual deployment.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, absolutely. And then, like, like you, my husband's currently on deployment, so he's not an aviator, but their deployment was supposed to get back in August and here we are on a two month extension and that's like a whole nother side to deployment. That's a bit miserable, but it's, it's part of it. And you know, for an aviator, you get those cats in those traps and you get some time in the air, and so you take the wins when you can.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And then to a little bit of life on the boat, because, again I think important distinction for Navy jet pilots versus, hypothetically, at Air Force jet pilot. Whatever the case is, you're in the Navy, right, and I think this is a really important thing that we talk about, because you're quite literally on a ship. Now, not all naval aviators are ship-based. You can fly the P-3 or the P-8, now right, and be land-based, but the majority of naval aviators, again, you're in the Navy and so you're living on the ship. So how was that experience for you as a pilot on the ship? What are some of the pot, like cool things, about living, you know, on an aircraft carrier for months at a time and what are some of the things that are that are difficult about that process as well?
Speaker 2:Right. I mean, some of the cool things, especially being an aviator, is you find out on the ship there are people who don't see the light of day for weeks on end, months on end. You know they're, they're down in the reactor. So, for an aviator, I got to get off the ship almost every day and, granted, I wasn't like I had to come back to the ship, but I got to go out and fly and just have an absolute blast and you know, and hang out with my buddies and and I think the the camaraderie that happens in an F-18 squadron is unlike any other, because you are such a close-knit family of very tactical individuals.
Speaker 2:But we like to work hard. Play hard is kind of our motto. So when we're not flying and not working, I think we did a really good job as a team trying to work through deployment and try to get past those hard times. But, like you said, there's the difficult parts where the food gets crummy or the mail doesn't come in and now you're kind of stuck on a ship with a bunch of guys that towards the end you don't want to be around anymore. But you work your way through it and it's. I mean, people do it every day and it works Every day, every day.
Speaker 1:I had previously done an episode with Andrew Howard talking about again being on a submarine and that thing that comes up right, like whether it's a submarine or a ship, you're going to spend a lot of time in very close proximity with a lot of people, and a lot of people you may really like and others you you may not vibe with, so it's definitely an interesting experience. Like you're saying, you may get to takeoff from that ship but you're landing right back on it.
Speaker 2:And I'll give it to. You know, unlike a sub or some of the small boys I will say, the great thing about jet pilots is your carrier base. So you're always going to be on the biggest ship that the Navy has. So you know, those couple of people that you don't vibe with you can usually get away from them. There's plenty of room.
Speaker 1:Indeed, all right. And then one thing that I forgot to ask off the bat if it is a family friendly story or story you're willing to tell, how do we, how do we come up with bacon, and you might give a quick, quick rundown on what call signs are in general and how you landed up with bacon, the Air.
Speaker 2:Force, they kind of pick their own call sign in the Navy, and it's the same, I think, at the Academy. There's those who have done dumb things and those who will, and so you usually get your call sign from the dumb thing that you've done. And so what ends up happening is the first six months that you're in a fighter squadron, you're to just be quiet. You're supposed to listen, you're supposed to absorb everything that's happening, but inevitably during that time you are going to do something to embarrass yourself, and when that happens, the squadron will basically start just a running log of here's all these funny things that we can call this person based off of this funny thing that they did, or whatever it might be. And so what they end up doing is they put a list on the board and throughout the week Skipper will come in and like, erase a couple of names or whatever, and then eventually, once you have a pretty good quorum of names, they make you stand up in front of the entire wardroom and now you have to go through and introduce yourself with all these different call signs and they will vote down to just one, and then you're stuck with that one, and it's usually the one that made you cringe the most in front of the whole order. So it makes for some good lightheartedness. But so my call sign is bacon. It's an acronym, so all capitals with an exclamation point.
Speaker 2:I guess when I was a officer in in my early time at bfa 195, if the schedule ever got messed up, one of the things I would always say is like, oh no, it's something I catch myself saying all the time. But so fast forward. I'm probably three months into the squadron. We just left Australia. It's my first carrier landing after one of my first ports Pretty, pretty excited, I don't know, ready to get back underway. And I land and my helmet bag that's typically tucked under your right elbow goes flying forward. And as it goes flying forward I reach for it and when I do I hit the canopy switch and the canopy switch is is an automatic up, so it goes all the way up regardless.
Speaker 2:And in my I I thought nobody saw that. I thought I caught it, I thought I closed the canopy quick. That is not what happened. Like as I taxied out of the LA you could hear the air boss like key the mic and he just was like you just hear him kind of think and then he's kind of unkeyed the mic because I don't think he knew what to say, Like, oh my gosh, this chick is an idiot. So as I taxied free, got out of the jet, nobody said anything. When I got into the, into the ready room, they had the cameras, because there's cameras all over the carrier. They had cameras that all watched my aircraft and you can just see my, my canopy rays right as I'm coming to a stop and my hands go up like crazy. I don't know what just happened. Like I just totally brain fart where the switch was. It was a long time but the canopy was up, so I finally get it closed. So it stands for bag actuates canopy oh no.
Speaker 1:There it is and there lives bacon. And I think that's kind of been my biggest realization now too Because again I wasn't an aviator so I wasn't fully in tune with that Is how many of the call signs really are acronyms. Like you hear these call signs and you're like, oh, did she eat a lot of bacon or something? And it's like no, I think again, a lot of times it is quite literally an acronym.
Speaker 2:Right, I heard a lot of funny ones the other day.
Speaker 1:Right like there's one I heard the other day like ham right, which ended up being like a they called them the human AI machine because he was just like very robotic. Right Like there, there are a lot, of, a lot of things that a lot of these call signs are quite literally just an acronym for something that's going on. Right and so always a good, good insight aviation community, and you go back to the FRS. Do you mind explaining what the FRS is, what, like again, what that means in the, in the world of pilots, and what made you want to go to that tour, which will again kind of lead into the fun aspect of this episode?
Speaker 2:Right, absolutely so. As you're going through the pipeline to become a naval aviator, you're going to start out with some of the smaller aircraft. You start off with Cessnas, then you go to a T-6. If you're going through the jet platform, you'll end up in the T-45, and that's either in Meridian or Kingsville and then from there as a student naval aviator. You've got your wings.
Speaker 2:Now it's time to learn how to fly the F-18 and to be kind of that big boy, big girl pilot. So they send you to either one of technically three places. They either send you to Oceana, lemoore or they can send you up to Whidbey if you're going to end up being a growler pilot. And that is where we have the FRS, the fleet replacement squadrons. So we are going to train new, freshly winged aviators how to first time fly in the war.
Speaker 2:We have an FRS for the F-18 as well as an FRS for the F-35. And so it is a squadron full of first time shore tour instructors. So you're going to have a whole bunch of aviators that just finished their first underway. They've come back and they're learning how to instruct. You have a full cadre of department heads and then it's going to be headed up by a commander or captain, and our job is to walk brand new students from never having touched an F-18 all the way through the FAM, strike and fighter phases of flight, and we're going to teach them eventually how to land at the boat and then send them on their way to ultimately be our replacements, be the ones who fill the shoes that we left behind.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and if anyone hasn't listened yet to the episode that I recorded with Sarah Riley about the classroom experience, I talk about how the Naval Academy and the Navy a lot of times brings back people from immediately after their operational tour in the fleet and puts them in instructor roles. Now, obviously, the Naval Academy is quite literally an academic instruction, but a lot of times even like we see out in the fleet, they take a lot of people who are fresh off operational tours to come back and instruct, to provide that like direct fleet experience. Right, like you're saying, you came off deployment, you just flew the missions and now you're back and teaching and I think it's a really cool aspect of the process.
Speaker 2:Right Cause who's better to teach them than those who literally were were just in it? I mean, you start to realize in naval aviation that, especially in some of our of our older you get into lieutenant commanders and commanders they go off to schools, they go get their master discrees, they go do things like that, and then they come back and they don't necessarily have that immediate fleet experience of like what's happening in the world right now. And sometimes they have to get schooled back up by aviators who also just came off deployment, who are younger than them, and that's just part of the whole package.
Speaker 1:Sure, 100%. And so, while you're there now you're an instructor at the FRS and you find out that there's a little film that's being worked on and produced and that is Top Gun 2. Maverick, how'd you end up? And so, again, I'm just going to turn this over to you for everyone who's listening. You ended up being a part of the film, quite literally being one of the pilots who flew with the actors in the backseat, and so I'm just going to pass it over to you now. Like, hey, you're at the FRS, that's the end state. What happens in between? Like how do you get approached about that? How do you get picked? How do you get selected? How does that happen? And, yeah, can you just explain that process of being involved with, quite literally, the filming of Top Gun 2?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it goes back to right time, right place, like all things in the Navy. So I had heard rumors that the film was going to be taking place. We had heard rumors that it's all these rumors that it's going to happen in the war. And one day I pull up and I park and I'm going into the squadron and there's a big white van outside that has Paramount plastered on the side and I was like, oh, like it's happening.
Speaker 2:So I go upstairs and you know I was going about kind of my normal day and my department at this time, who was the safety officer, was like hey, you're brand new, trained from ASO school, from Aviation Safety Officer School. I need you to do nothing else but to go downstairs and to make sure Paramount doesn't break our jet. We gave them a jet to work on to figure out how these cameras are going to work, and I just need you to make sure nobody falls off of it. I need you to make sure they don't break anything. So for weeks that's what we did was we would station either myself or a couple other aviators just kind of outside of where Paramount was working and we would help them open the canopy or get a B stand, which is one of our ladders, so they could climb on top a little bit easier. I think they eventually I think at first they saw us as a hindrance, because there's nothing like having some safety officer stand there and like pick at you for not wearing your helmet, but eventually they saw us as kind of an opportunity. So there's a couple of pictures of me like sitting in the aircraft, kind of showing them like this is where my head would be if I was like sitting in the airplane. And so I got to work with the camera crew a lot in that aspect, and that was in like August of 2018 or 19. And that was so much fun.
Speaker 2:But then they left. And they left for a whole year and we kind of thought like, well, that was kind of weird, I guess they're gone, we'll come to find out what they were doing was. They took the cameras back to NAVAIR and to big Navy and said, hey, here's our cameras, test them out. And so Big Navy had to basically say, like they had to test the ejection with these cameras. They had to make sure the cameras could withhold the G's that we were going to put them under, because the last thing you need is this giant camera set like falling into an actor's lab and then them having to eject and like it just turning into a big mess. So, okay, they fast forward a year. They got all that certified good to go. They got a couple of jets, they were able to install their computer or their camera systems and now they start flying. And they had done quite a good bit of flying before I was ever involved.
Speaker 2:And so my, when they came out to Lemoore, paramount said they obviously want to have a minimal amount of impact on fleet aviators because the fleet's busy, the fleet's getting ready for deployment, they're getting ready for workups, whatever it may be. So where better to go than the instructors of the FRS who we're shore-based? We have a little bit extra time on our hands. We could help them get through these flights. So they came to the FRS and they requested a couple of aviators.
Speaker 2:Our skipper had put out a rule that as an instructor, if you were going to participate in the filming of the movie, you had to be fully qualified. As an instructor we have three main phases. So I was literally in Key West qualifying on my final phase and I guess my opso texted skipper yep, she's done, she's qualified. So then he texted me okay, you're in it again. Right time, right place. I was the only female in the frs as an instructor, fully qualified. So they were like, if you would like this opportunity, paramount wants a female, because if there's a female aviator in the movie, why not have a real female flying her?
Speaker 1:so so at that point are you like partnered? Are you like partnered with Phoenix? Then so, is that. Is that their goal like? Are you flying Monica? Like or like? How's that? How's that working and what's your relationship with them?
Speaker 2:I thought I thought that's how it was going to be, because when I got back from QS, skipper kind of gave me this like you're going to go meet Monica and she's going to kind of interview you. And I thought it was this whole. I'm going to have to like get like be interviewed by her and like be accepted as her pilot. But she is such an amazing individual. I just walked up, we started chatting. She was like I'm just so excited to get in this jet. Like this is going to be so much fun.
Speaker 2:I was somewhat partnered with Phoenix because it was easier for them to do my hair and makeup and to get the same shots at the same time. I flew with Bob and then every once in a while, if they needed another aviator in the backseat, they could throw somebody else in the back as required and they would just continue to get backseat. I guess kind of backseat, looking forward shots of the back of my head. And then we also had a couple of jets that didn't have, or that had, external cameras. So we did some flights where we wore our normal helmets. We didn't get all dressed up, but we flew some external camera shots and that was fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so just to kind of almost restating in different forms then so the actors are quite literally in the plane, like when we're watching Top Gun 2, none of this is in a simulator, none of this is kind of in a set thing. Like these actors are quite literally in the jets, like in the backseat, with you flying, and like these scenes that we're seeing, in these facial expressions that are being made and faces being disformed from G's, like those are real.
Speaker 2:Those are all real, absolutely. My understanding is that Tom Cruise put together like a little aviation school for them to all go through. So they did amazing when it came to like not getting airsick or anything like that. But yes, we, we were outfitted with Foxtrot, so two seat aircraft. They would put, obviously, the, the Navy pilot in the front, because that's where all the you know, there's the rumor that tom cruise wanted to actually fly the thing and that's true. I mean he did.
Speaker 2:He did wanted to actually fly an f-18, but there's too many switches and there's there's too many safety controls up front that we needed an actual navy aviator up front and then we would throw the actor in the back and kind of a cool cool point is we did have one or two jets. So the FRS has what we call FTs, so trainers that have sticks and throttles in the back. So there's a couple of jets where Tom Cruise would want to sit in the back because he could fly the jet to and from the area. We never let them fly when we were filming. It was a little too dynamic for that. But yes, they're in the area. We never let them fly when we were filming. It was a little too dynamic for that. But yeah, they're in the airplane when you see their faces get pulled from Gs. We're pulling as hard as we can.
Speaker 1:And so did you guys, like the actual naval aviators, have to go through any additional training or anything of the sort? Because when you watch the film, there's some intense flying that goes on. You guys are flying really low to the deck in some scenes. There's some scenes where, again, like you guys are getting inverted, you're flying between each other. There's a lot again, there's a lot of, I would say, like highly tactical flying involved, like what was that process for you and how fun was that for you to get to fly that way?
Speaker 2:Right, it was. I will never be able to fly like that again, because we did have some special permissions in order to fly that way and it was an amazing way to kind of end my career, because this was one of the final things that I did. But to answer your question, no, they didn't put us through any extra training, because the type of flying that they do in the movie is the type of flying that we do in real life. And so, and to kind of hammer home a point that Paramount kind of wanted to make, is I'm not a patchwear, I'm not a Top Gun graduate.
Speaker 2:Many of the individuals who flew in the movie are not Top Gun graduates, and what they wanted to prove to not only future naval aviators, but to the US as a whole and to any country any threat country that we may have is that the aviators that were flying this movie are your Mach 1, you know most average if average is a word aviator that we have in the fleet right now.
Speaker 2:And so, while, yes, in the movie typically we're allowed to fly down to 500 feet, once you're comfortable at 500 feet and you've met a couple of additional qualifications, you can take it down to 200 feet when we do low levels. For this particular movie they kind of said, all right, let's bump it down to 100 feet. We're going to try to be as safe as we can at 100 feet. But yeah, that's all us and that is all real flying. I'll say the CGI as far as how low we are, it's all real. That's how low we actually were. When it comes to aircraft splitting the section and tom crew's kind of flying up between two aircraft, that's a little bit of movie magic okay, I was.
Speaker 1:I was wondering about that specifically.
Speaker 2:I was like that's crazy right now anytime, anytime there's kind of more than like two aircraft in the same piece of sky. It's a little bit of movie magic just for the safety of everybody.
Speaker 1:But yes, there was a lot of non-cgi in that movie and we definitely want to hammer that point home so including the environments then, right, like when you're flying through, like the snow-capped mountains in the background, flying low through valleys and trees, long rivers, like where did you guys film those locations? Where are you flying in that? Like, what are some of these like really cool places that you're, you know, filming the movie?
Speaker 2:Right. So there's some beautiful routes up in Washington and the would be Island area. So we actually took a couple of our jets up to the growler uh base in Whidbey Island. They let us use their facilities and that's where you see all that beautiful snow cap like and that foliage. That was just all such an amazing and I had a blast. We never flew under a bridge in real life but, yes, the all that, that scene where the four jets fly over that frozen lake, I mean it's, it's such a fun experience Cause like that's my buddy Griff, like I know who flew that scene, that scene, and like I know the guy that was flying the helicopter that got that shot and that is. That's all real.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's up in Washington, it's beautiful it's so cool and so along that, just like jumping into some of the iconic scenes, I want to use kind of the last portion of this episode to talk about some of the iconic scenes that people would see in a movie and try and compare it as best as we can to real life and kind of how it would actually work in the Navy without a film crew there filming Top Gun, right. And so the first one I want to talk about is briefings, right? So obviously in a lot of these scenes you see there's like 10 aviators in chairs sitting up there. Tom Cruise is, you know, given the brief up front, you have the admiral, you know, over there overlooking his shoulder, right? When it comes to briefing in the Navy, is it that way? Or kind of what's your pre-flight routine? What things are you coordinating and how big of a piece of the overall flight program and flight plan are briefs, briefing beforehand, briefing out mission plans, et cetera.
Speaker 2:They're a huge piece of aviation for not only to make sure everybody's on the same page but for the safety aspect of it all, because we are going to put several aircraft I mean, when we fly LFE's large force exercises up in Fallon or off the carrier, you could have 20, 30 jets all in the same piece of sky and you want to make sure everybody's on the same page. So typically everyday flight, you're going to two hours prior to your flight. You're going to gather. Obviously, if it's a larger flight and you're underway, you probably will gather in the ready room where everybody's going to be sitting down in a couple of chairs. If you're at the FRS and it's just you and a couple students, you're going to go into a little back room. It's just going to be the four of you and you'll kind of chat it out.
Speaker 2:So the first things that we go over is just some of the basic admin how are we getting to and from the area I mean down to? Sometimes, when you're talking to students it's how are you going to start up the jet? How are we going to just kind of put everything together so that we're ready to go fly? How are we going to do this safely. Okay, is everybody on the same page? Perfect. Now we're going to talk about the fun stuff and what we're going to go do today and the mission and stuff like that, and that's all going to take about an hour, sometimes a little longer, and then from there each pilot has their own kind of process. So you have the next hour to grab a snack, put yourself together, get all your gear ready, and now we're going to go downstairs, we're going to talk to maintenance, we're going to put on our our G suit and our harness, we're going to get our helmets and then we're going to go out to the jet and start it up.
Speaker 1:So that's so cool and so when it now integrating it even into the movie, what were the briefings like before filming the scenes of these briefings? Because now you're incorporating a film crew, now you're incorporating actors, but I'm sure the Navy needs a say too. Like, did Tom Cruise and Navy boss ever get in the like a little bit of a hey, tom, you can't do that. Like what's kind of the dynamic there in the whole thing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it was. It was a lot of fun and it was totally different, a little bit backwards, from what we do in real life. My days started off with hair and makeup, which was totally unheard of, because they had to give me a dark kind of bun. They had to kind of give me a spray tan, because Monica is a lot darker than I am. So I would start probably about three to four hours before the flight in hair and makeup and then we would go and we would.
Speaker 2:We would sit in a giant room with this kind of U shaped table and each actor would sit next to their pilot and Tom would stand up there and give what lines we're going to go over and kind of what scene we were going to go over. And I, looking back on it now, I realized he did it in a way that never gave any secrets away and I don't know if that was intentional or not, because, like, I never knew that Iceman ended up dying or anything like that. But yeah, so he would give the overall what lines we're going to cover, what the flight should look like. He would kind of he would always say how much he wanted to push the pilots. How you know, he would kind of give us the how far he'd like to go.
Speaker 2:And we had a, a captain with us who was kind of our our liaison between the navy and paramount. His call sign was ferg. So, captain brian ferguson, he was amazing because after that brief with tom, he would say, all right, if you're not a naval aviator, get out of the room. And he would give us an official. Here's the safety brief, here's the admin brief. And then I know what Tom said, but here's what we're going to do and if he has any problem with that I'll talk to him.
Speaker 1:Oh, man that's so cool, all right, I mean, what a cool behind the scenes, right, and in that process, while you're sitting in these briefs with the actors and doing all these things, are you able to build a relationship with them? Or are they so locked into filming that's all they care about? Or are they interested and intrigued about truly naval aviation, like, how much are they asking you questions? How inquisitive are they into the life of an aviator? And again, specifically for Monica to you again being because in the film, quite literally, she's the only female aviator. And again, specifically for Monica to you again being because in the film, quite literally, she's the only female aviator, right, she's the only woman who's flying in this thing. How much of that is incorporated? How much is she talking to you about that experience? And what is your experience in that realm as, again, likely being one of few women in a squadron that is primarily men?
Speaker 2:Right. They you know, monica and all the actors did an amazing job of kind of knowing when we needed to kind of give each other our little bubbles. So when Tom was briefing, they were very intent on listening to exactly what he had to say. They wanted to make sure they were getting their lines and their situation all set up, because this is the first movie that I know of where the actors were basically the director, the sound guy, the cameraman and an actor all sitting in a little tiny cockpit. Anytime we'd go fly, they were in control of all that. So we would let them have that little bubble. We were obviously listening to what the flight was going to be, to what the flight was going to be, and then, prior to the flight, they would let us get into our little bubble to make sure that we're prepping what we need, because there's nothing worse than being not prepared for a paramount, you know, flight. So we wanted to make sure we were ready for that.
Speaker 2:But outside of those times, I mean we had 20 minute transits out to the area and back, where we're just flying straight and level, trying to get out there, and we would chat. We would chat over lunch, we would chat between flights and they were honestly very intrigued with with naval aviation and how we each got to the position that we were in, what our family lives were like, what our careers paths had been up to this point and and I like to think that, with Monica, it drove some of the way that the movie actually came out, because I've heard rumors I can't verify them in any way, but I'm under the impression that she drove a change in the script to actually minimize her romantic involvement with some of the other characters, because they didn't want to portray every female aviator as somebody who's just out there looking for a relationship, and I thought that was really cool and that came about from her talking to the female air crew that we're working on in the movie, individuals like Dragon and myself.
Speaker 1:No, so cool, right, and I'm really happy to hear stuff like that. Like that's, it's awesome right, from the integration and involvement of the actors, like just being genuinely great humans and trying to learn. But then also that aspect right, it's something my my wife goes through as well, and she's like all I want to do is just show up and do my job.
Speaker 1:Like I just love flying, like I just want to fly Right, and like I, that's all I want people to think about is like that I'm just here to show up and fly because, like that's what I want to do fly and lead sailors, right exactly I think that's, I think that's really cool and I love that and so, but along the lines of socialization in in the film in general, obviously there are a couple iconic scenes one right the bar, right, like going to the bar and having everything be there, and then two, obviously the beach scene, right, this, this one, we're playing football instead of volleyball, but we're in this spot. So I just want to ask your opinion now, from the social aspect of being a naval aviator and being in a squadron, is there a bar that that bar scene is meant to replicate or is iconic in the naval aviation community? And then, what are squadron events like? Do squadrons go and play football on the beach? Or like go do these things, kind of? What is the social aspect of being in a squadron as a naval aviator?
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly so there are bars like the one that's portrayed in the movie on pretty much every naval aviation base that you can find across the country, and you know, in Japan we had one in Japan as well and they look exactly like what you see in the movie. There is just naval aviation plaques and there's hooks hanging and there's weapons hanging from the ceiling and there's just all sorts of stuff in remembrance of squadrons and commanders and such of the past, and so that scene is extremely realistic. I mean, the bar is typically open on Wednesday night, so it's not an everyday thing, but it is something that like, hey, wednesday afternoon we might end our flights and hey, everybody, let's go meet at the bar and come to find out. All the other squadrons have the exact same idea. So that's where everybody meets and everybody hangs out and it's a good time.
Speaker 2:As far as playing beach volleyball or beach football, no, that's something we typically make fun of. We don't do a whole lot of that, if at all. I do know that there's a volleyball court in Guam that we always like to hit up, but typically we aren't doing that. We do things like halen balales, where you know as a, as a new member of the wardroom shows up or, as a member of the wardroom is, is leaving. You know that might be the weekend that we decided to get together as a squadron. We'll go out to a restaurant, we'll go go-karting, we'll do something fun and we'll say hello to the new guy and we'll say farewell to those that are departing us, and that's the kind of stuff we really enjoy doing.
Speaker 1:I love it, it's so cool. And those bars there is one in Coronado as well, naval Air Station North Island right, there's the I-Bar on Coronado and I notoriously I can't believe my wife then girlfriend at the time let me walk in there with her. She's like yeah, you should come, we're doing a fleet up, right, we're doing a fleet up, so they're getting people and introducing them into the squadron, right, like you should come with me. Blah, blah, blah. So she takes me with her and I'm excited and I'm like yeah, I'm in the Navy, so again, being on base isn't foreign to me, but being at this bar is right. And I'm, I'm wearing a cap and I walk into the bar and she doesn't give me a heads up, nothing. They start ringing the bell because I'm inside. Again, there are rules. I had to pay. I paid like a $200 tap. I bought a round for everyone in the bar because I was wearing a hat. You're not going to tell me this there are rules, so the rules are real.
Speaker 2:The rules are real Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Rules are real Experience firsthand in real real Experience firsthand in real life Experience, firsthand in real life. And then, yeah, the football scene. Yeah, that's fair Been to a couple of Hale and Bales. Those are super fun, A great opportunity right to welcome new people in the squadron and thank people for their time that they dedicated to the squadron while they were there. Absolutely, yeah, Not a lot of beach football though, but sometimes again, when you're Paramount, when you're Tom Cruise, you got to get Glenn Powell on the screen shirtless and you know, sometimes you got to do what you got to do.
Speaker 2:You got to do what you got to do.
Speaker 1:Perfect, all right. Well, we're going to start to wrap this up. Thank you so much for opportunity again just to if you have any, you know, last thoughts that you want to bring up. But specifically what I really want to turn over to you is is ask like why, if there's a young man or woman listening to this episode who may be interested in aviation or the military in general, what's your best recruiting pitch for why people should consider a service, academy education and a career in naval aviation?
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely I think so. As far as going to the service academy any service academy for that matter they're all amazing. You could just go on and on about their reputation and the class size. One thing that I always loved about the Naval Academy was I never was in an auditorium, just full of other students. It was always a very small class size. So there's that personal aspect. And then you know as well, the campus and its location are absolutely beautiful. That's kind of going back to the Naval Academy.
Speaker 2:I'm a little bit biased. I think that the Annapolis location is amazing, I think that the campus is beautiful, but when I talk to individuals about going to the Naval Academy, I always tell them to kind of look long, because it's always a lot more about that destination, of getting that commission, him after he commissioned. But I also met him after he went through an entire career of being an enlisted sailor. So he had to go through all the ranks, ultimately became a chief and then earned his commission and that was, you know, incredibly difficult. It's a long road, it's a very long road. And individuals who go to, let's say, rotc, now they have these colleges that they are attending and they have all these distractions and they have all these things around them emotions and just so many distractions, like I didn't go to a real college.
Speaker 2:I don't know what all there is. But there's distractions that, could, you know, kind of lead them off that path. But here you are at the Naval Academy. You wake up every day, you put on the uniform, every day You're surrounded by individuals who are all on the same path as you, and those distractions are just somewhat limited now and they're kind of taken away. And now you know that you are on the path to a commission and to an amazing job opportunity, as the day you walk across the stage you have that job just waiting for you, and it's not an everyday job, it's an exciting job, it's an amazing job.
Speaker 2:And so that's why I always think that the Naval Academy, you know, and the Naval Academy as as soon as you can don't think I have so many sailors who were told by recruiters, unfortunately, like I oh, I was just going to enlist and then I was going to go to the Naval Academy there's just so many distractions, so many distractions. So, if you can get in as soon as possible. And then, as far as Naval Aviation, I mean, just watch the movie. It is absolutely amazing. I'm so biased towards Naval Aviation, getting off the boat, you know, pulling some G's, just having an absolute blast with your buddies. It's just nothing better.
Speaker 1:Nothing better. I love it. And then final, final wrap up I'm really big on mentorship here, on Academy Insider and people who invest back and help the next wave of people going through, and so I want to turn it over to you. During your time as a midshipman or even a young junior officer in the fleet, do you have anyone who made a really special impact or really changed the trajectory of your time in the Navy just through the investment of some kindness, mentorship, teaching, coaching, et cetera.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so, kind of going back to the fact that I was a nerd, so I was in Drummond Bugle Corps and our officer leader at the time was Captain Will Dubiak and he retired from 30 years of service like right before I graduated. So I was a bit sad to see him go. But you know one of those things that sticks out for me he was a naval aviator. So anytime I talked to him he kind of was always plugging that go naval aviation. He was the commander of a VAW squadron so it wasn't you know, jets, but it was carrier aviation. So he always kind of had those plugs as well.
Speaker 2:But you know, early in first year, up to par for Naval aviation, and I just remember the doc at the time was like well, you can try to submit a waiver, but like why would the Navy pick somebody who has a waiver over all these individuals? And that was the first time that I had a true physical like barrier that I couldn't. I couldn't study my way through this test. I couldn't, you know, work out a little harder, you know, to score better on the PRT or anything like that. It was a, it was a physical barrier.
Speaker 2:And I took that to Captain Dubiak and I said you know, is this the part where I just give up? Is this the part where I just go slow and realize that the and you know it was a very simple walk down stribling. It was a very simple conversation of like are you really going to go through all of this? You're going to go through getting into the academy. You're going to go through signing your two for seven and putting yourself on the line to give up because one doctor told you it might not happen. So because of him, I submitted my waivers. I kept fighting. I still have waivers in my NATOPS jacket for my eyes, but that's totally fine. I never had any issues and it and you know it was all about just not giving up and not letting that one person kind of kind of weigh you down.
Speaker 1:I love. I love every bit of it. I couldn't agree more and I think that is the power of the Naval Academy. Experience is one going through these things where you face adversity, but having mentors who are there to help you navigate that for the first time right Like resiliency. Building true resiliency just comes from repetitions and repetitions of overcoming adversity and it can be tough because sometimes it just feels hopeless. But all it takes sometimes is the conversation, the investment of five minutes from a mentor, just to walk, slow you down, like and bring rationality back to the front Right.
Speaker 1:And and I think that's it's so special, so very cool to hear that story. I'm glad you did, cause what a cool life you've been able to live as a result of you fighting that battle. Right.
Speaker 2:It's been fun yeah.
Speaker 1:I love it. Well, any any last words, anything you would like to bring up that you feel like you didn't get the chance to hear in this episode, in addressing anyone who may be listening, from midshipman parents to prospective students or anyone else, no, I mean other than the fact that you can find me on LinkedIn or Facebook or whatever means that you need to.
Speaker 2:I'm happy to talk more about aviation with anybody who has any questions, or about the Naval Academy in that process.
Speaker 1:Without a doubt. Well, we appreciate you so much for taking the time to be here with us and share the naval academy in that process. So, without a doubt, well, we appreciate you so much for taking the time to be here with us and share the story a really fun one of being involved with top gun 2 maverick. So, amy, thank you so much for taking the time today be here with us thank you grant of course, all right, everyone.
Speaker 1:I hope you enjoyed the episode. Feel free to reach out to me with any questions or I can get you connected to amy and we'll go from so. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much for the listen and I hope you have a great day. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Academy Insider Podcast. I really hope you liked it, enjoyed it and learned something during this time. If you did, please feel free to like and subscribe or leave a comment about the episode. We really appreciate to hear your feedback about everything and continue to make Academy Insider an amazing service that guides, serves and supports midshipmen, future midshipmen and their families. Thank you.
