The Academy Insider Podcast - Your Guide to The Naval Academy Experience
The mission of Academy Insider is to guide, serve, and support Midshipmen, future Midshipmen, and their families. Through the perspective of a community of former graduates and Naval Academy insiders, this podcast will help you learn about life at the United States Naval Academy in Annapolis. Through our shared experiences, Academy Insider guides families through the anxiety and frustration caused by lack of understanding, misinformation, and confusion. This platform is designed to better relationships between midshipmen and their loved ones. This podcast is not affiliated with the United States Naval Academy, the United States Navy or Department of Defense. The thoughts and opinions are exclusively those of your host and his guests.
The Academy Insider Podcast - Your Guide to The Naval Academy Experience
#064 Varsity Athletics at the Naval Academy: An Insight into the Life and Schedule of Varsity Athletes
How do varsity athletes at the United States Naval Academy juggle the relentless demands of sports, academics, and military training? Join Shakir Robinson, a former Navy football player, as he sits down with me, a former basketball player, and Crystan, a former track and field athlete, to unravel the complex tapestry of their daily lives. From early morning workouts to late-night study sessions, we explore the intricate schedules and unwavering resilience required to thrive as a Division I athlete in one of the most challenging environments imaginable.
Grant and Crystan offer a raw and unfiltered look at the sacrifices and rewards of being a student-athlete at the Naval Academy. Hear Grant describe the exhausting routine of balancing classes, practices, and homework, and Crystan recount her journey as a fourth-class midshipman managing swim remedials and track commitments. We delve into the struggles of meeting high expectations, adjusting to new coaching staff, and maintaining relationships amidst a grueling schedule. Discover the strategies they employed to manage these pressures, from compartmentalizing tasks to leveraging team support for success both on and off the field.
We also tackle the often-misunderstood divide between varsity athletes and NARPs. Through personal stories, we highlight the importance of empathy and communication in bridging this gap. This episode is a treasure trove of leadership lessons learned through sports, illustrating how these experiences seamlessly transition into military roles. Whether you're a prospective midshipman, a parent, or simply curious about life at the Naval Academy, this episode offers profound insights into the life-changing potential of choosing this unique path and the unparalleled experiences it provides.
The mission of Academy Insider is to guide, serve, and support Midshipmen, future Midshipmen, and their families.
Grant Vermeer your host is the person who started it all. He is the founder of Academy Insider and the host of The Academy Insider podcast and the USNA Property Network Podcast. He was a recruited athlete which brought him to Annapolis where he was a four year member of the varsity basketball team. He was a cyber operations major and commissioned into the Cryptologic Warfare Community. He was stationed at Fort Meade and supported the Subsurface Direct Support mission.
He separated from the Navy in 2023 and now owns The Vermeer Group, a boutique residential real estate company that specializes in serving the United States Naval Academy community PCSing to California & Texas.
We are here to be your guide through the USNA experience.
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Welcome to Season 2 of the Academy Insider Podcast. Academy Insider is a 501c3 nonprofit organization that serves midshipmen, future midshipmen and their families. At its core, this podcast is designed to bring together a community of Naval Academy graduates and those affiliated with the United States Naval Academy in order to tell stories and provide a little bit of insight into what life at the Naval Academy is really like. I hope you enjoy it. Thank you so much for listening and reach out if you ever have any questions. Hey everyone, and welcome back to the Academy Insider Podcast. This episode today is going to be all about the life of a varsity athlete at the United States Naval Academy. So if you're in high school and potentially getting recruited by the Naval Academy, or if you're a parent of a midshipman who is a varsity athlete, this is going to be a tremendous insight into the day-to-day life of a midshipman at the Naval Academy who is also competing at the Division I level. And so if you're interested in kind of hearing about the complexities of the schedule between military obligations, academic obligations and then competing and trying to win at the Division I level, this episode will be coded for you. So I'm really excited to share my experiences. It's actually going to be a little bit of a switch up. The episode is going to be hosted and moderated by my good friend and Academy Insider Advisory Board member, shakir Robinson my guy, shaq and so I'll actually be talking about my experience and kind of be more on the guest side of today's episode. So I'm really excited about the opportunity to share my experiences and be joined by Kristen, who is a track and field athlete as well, and kind of compare some of the similarities and differences. So hope everything's going well. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1:I hope you enjoy the episode. Let me know if you have any questions. Otherwise, enjoy the listen. The Academy Insider Podcast is sponsored by the Vermeer Group, a residential real estate company that serves the United States Naval Academy community and other select clientele in both California and Texas. If I can ever answer a real estate related question for you or connect you with a trusted Academy affiliated agent in the market which you're in, please reach out to me directly at grantcom. You can also reach out to me on my LinkedIn page, grant Vermeer, and I'd be happy to respond to you there. Thank you so much, and now let's get back to the episode.
Speaker 2:All right, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you are in the world, we've got another episode, a special episode on the Academy Insider Podcast. I am Shakir Robinson. I'm taking over as a celebrity narrator today for our buddy, grant, and I want to welcome you guys to a special episode where we're going to talk about the balancing act of Naval Academy varsity athletes, and I got the pleasure today to have two varsity athletes, two former varsity athletes, with us here today, one of my good friends, grant, as well as Kristen. Yeah, good evening guys, good to have you guys on today, and then so we'll go ahead and jump right into it.
Speaker 2:Shakir Robinson, I'm on class of 2015. I was a Navy football player from 2011 up until 2015. Played under Coach Neumont, and one of the greatest accomplishments that we had was beating Army four years in a row and then also being able to go to the White House to meet the president, barack obama, for for two commanders and chiefs trophies, and so not a light feat, and hopefully this year we can continue that tradition. But I'll go ahead and open us up with grant. If you could just give us a short introduction of who you are for those who may not know, maybe a first-time listener, first time tuning in, and then we'll transition over to them, to our other guests as well.
Speaker 1:Nah, shack, I, I appreciate it, man. It's fun being on this side of it. Usually I'm the one actually moderating these things and doing the interviews, but it'll be fun to get to talk about my experiences as a varsity athlete, so I appreciate it. Yeah, so I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area. I'm a Northern California kid. I went to a high school called Bellarmine College, prep Jesuit Catholic high school out in San Jose, california Played multiple sports in high school but knew pretty early on that I loved basketball, even though it was my worst sport. I was probably better at other things, but I just love basketball. Basketball flows through my veins. I love the game so much, and so I knew it's what I wanted to do and ended up getting to play, be recruited to play basketball at the Naval Academy, which was just a dream come true. So it was basketball that brought me to the Naval Academy. Awesome, thanks, man. Thanks man.
Speaker 2:And then we also have Kristen, one of my good friends that we've known each other for a while, 2016 graduate of the Naval Academy. And if you can give us a short introduction, who you are, where you're from, and then, yeah, what sports you played in high school as well?
Speaker 3:Of course, thanks for having me here. My name is Kristen Mc. I'm from Raleigh, north Carolina. I went to Millbrook High School back in the day. Back then I played basketball and ran track. As I got to junior year I focused in on track after I realized I think I'm pretty good at this. I might be able to continue on into college. And actually back then I didn't even know about the Naval Academy. I found out through a recruiting letter the summer before my senior year and got in contact with the track coaches and got to do the drag program that way. So after that that's pretty much what led me to the naval academy back then.
Speaker 2:Awesome, so you found about it through a recruiting letter. But but going back to grant, how did that actual recruiting process work? As you're a high school student, did you want to go to the naval academy solely to be a midshipman, or did you want to go through the pathway of sports to also be able to play at the division I level for varsity basketball?
Speaker 1:Yeah, in full transparency, I didn't know much about the Naval Academy growing up in the San Francisco Bay Area there's not much of a Naval presence, to be honest with you, and so I didn't even really know what the Naval Academy was until I started getting recruited to play basketball.
Speaker 1:So for me it was like a purely basketball opened my eyes to what the Naval Academy was, which then allowed me to kind of have an understanding and get to see. It was an incredible life decision, but there was no Naval Academy for me without basketball. Like that was a whole process and, to answer your question again, we're a Division I sports program. Coaches go out and they recruit, they go and scout and watch tournaments and they're all out and about. And then they come in and like, literally came to my high school and watch practice and recruited me and offered me even though we don't do athletic scholarships because everyone's going for free they again they did the the quote unquote, like they offered you a spot on the team as a recruited athlete, right, and so that was the process for me, the full thing Coaches in the stands during summer basketball games, coming to my high school, talking to me, meeting my family and then offering me a quote-unquote scholarship.
Speaker 2:Wow, awesome. So that sounds pretty similar to my experience with Navy football my senior year. They as well. They send the coach down. They said, hey, we have a great opportunity for you to go to the school and play at the Division One level and then also get an amazing Ivy League type education as well as, on the back end, being able to be a junior officer in the Marine Corps or the Navy. Call and say, hey, we want you to run indoor outdoor track for us, or did you go primarily first as a midshipman and then you decided to compete for a spot on the track team once you got to the Naval Academy?
Speaker 3:Right. My experience was a little different. I ended up contacting them and then they knew who I was. So once I got in contact with the two coaches there, they were very personable. They were explaining the whole process, similar to how your coaches were doing to you the opportunities that would open up for me going to the Naval Academy, and how they would take full care of me while I was there. And, of course, on the back end I had the grades to back it up, so that helped me get through the application process. But they were just so welcoming and Naval Academy flew me out and I was able to they call it drag but shadow one of the women on the track team who was a freshman at the time, and they were really nice and I got to live that life for a day or two, so that was pretty cool. That's probably my most memorable experience.
Speaker 1:I actually have a question for you, kristen, on that one. So did you quite literally do that? Did that happen for you through the Candidate Visit Weekend program? Was it not like a quote, like an official visit from the track team, like it went through candidate visit weekend and they just assigned you a track athlete?
Speaker 3:I don't think it was through that. I think it was something they set up purely through the track team, because I don't remember going with like a group of individuals. I remember just being about myself okay, got it.
Speaker 2:So, so fast forward. You, you guys, both in some way get recruited for varsity basketball, slash varsity indoor outdoor track. You get to the academy. It's plebe summer. At that point, going through the amount of time it took for, I think, six weeks of plebe summer At that time, did it matter that you were a varsity athlete at all? Did you get any special treatment? Did you get to practice with your team, or how did that work out for you guys that were varsity athletes? As soon as you hit Cleve Summer and Kristen, we can start off with you. Yeah, how did that go for you?
Speaker 3:Even though I was a track athlete, I was purely I called myself like a field athlete because I was really good at long and triple jump, so I was not a distance runner by any means. Like warmups took me out back then. So Cleve Summer, I just remember so much running Just I can only think of don't be last. So for me that was the biggest challenge. I don't remember connecting with the track team until closer to the end of Cleve Summer. Or maybe we had like a, was it like a sports period?
Speaker 3:So, we'd go and that'd be like maybe an hour out of the day to go talk to the track coaches.
Speaker 2:But we didn't get to actually get into a routine until the end of the season. Okay, okay. And Grant, did you get special treatment going through the summer, knowing that you were a basketball player?
Speaker 1:Yeah, special is one word to use. Yeah, that's a way to say it, I think when you're at the academy, right, like sometimes it puts a little hyper focus on you because rightly so the detailers were like you probably came here just to play your sport, right? Like well, welcome to a military school, right? And so there's like a little extra attention and focus. And so for me, like Plebe Summer was a big smack in the face, right. And so for me, like plebe summer was a big smack in the face, right, like we talk about waking up to what, what did I just get myself into? Like that was day three for me during plebe summer. I woke up and I was like what did I just do?
Speaker 1:Because, like Chris was saying, we have sports period during plebe summer, but usually doesn't start until day 10 or day 14, somewhere in there. So again, you go a full two weeks where it is nothing but military boot camp, military indoctrination, you are not touching a basketball. And I was quickly like I was like you know, what did I do? Like I thought I was going to play basketball, man, like what is happening. And so that was definitely a huge wake up factor.
Speaker 1:But then towards, again towards the mid part of plebe summer you start getting your sports period, which is a good hour to hour and a half where you get to be with your coaches. You get to practice your sport A lot of times because the coaches know plebe summer is so demanding and so grueling. A lot of times it'll be a lot of instruction. They're going over X's and O's and letting you sit and relax instead of putting you through an entire division one basketball practice right on top of plebe summer, basketball practice right on top of plebe summer. So there's a good balance of are you playing your sport or are you just kind of sitting, relaxing, stretching, recovering and learning about what your program is going to be at the end of plebe summer, and so that's kind of where the the balance lied, um, during that first summer.
Speaker 2:Okay, thanks, and that kind of leads me into. I'll talk about the elephant in the room. Right is navy football. I think we have a quite the reputation in the room. Right is Navy football. I think we have quite the reputation at the Naval Academy, especially going through Plebe summer.
Speaker 2:Because the reality of it is we go through about the first half to two-thirds of Plebe summer as any other fourth-class midshipman would do, as any Plebe would do.
Speaker 2:But around that last week of July, going into two weeks before reform, is when the varsityity football players we get cut loose, the transition to prepare ourselves for fall camp.
Speaker 2:And the reality is, as a as a d1 division football player, sometimes we open up with with teams like notre dame or other big schools where those guys have been training all summer long and you get, you know, you got fourth class robinson coming in that's been doing whatever military requirements and so they have to find a way to kind of add some equilibrium and so with that they cut us out about two or or three weeks earlier so we can transition to start being more competitive on the football field.
Speaker 2:But but we're working just as much because we roll right into two days, and in long days in the weight room just to have a chance to have a successful football season. So that's the Navy football experience. So after plebe summer, the academic year starts, and we're in August right now. So the academic year starts and you guys start to be with your team full on. And so, grant, can you go ahead and start off with kind of what does a normal day for you, being a Division I athlete, look like, schedule-wise, as far as waking up practice schedule and the academics as well?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think being a service academy athlete is one of the most difficult things that any college athlete can experience. That's because your status as a varsity athlete doesn't change the academic experience of the Naval Academy, and so there is a morning training period. Some coaches will use it, others won't. For us, like in basketball, during offseason, we would have conditioning two days a week and then lifts three days a week in the morning, right? So the entire offseason you're going over showing up Halsey Gym at 5.30 am and you're doing your either conditioning or workout from that period. Then, just like any other midshipman, you're in class and again, we're taking 18, 19, 20 credit hours in a semester. So you're going to class starting at 7.55 in the morning, a lot of times until about 2.30 or 3.20 in the afternoon, and you're taking five or six class periods during that day, and so it's difficult.
Speaker 1:I joke when I talk about Naval Academy academics. It's like high school on steroids, right? It's not like two periods in a day, and if you're tired you can skip it and watch the lecture online. Like no class is mandatory. And so you're going to class for five to six hours a day after your initial lift in the morning, the majority of times for a sport like basketball, during our lunch period we would have film, like we would go to Ricketts and we would go and we would watch film of the previous day's practice and go over it and prepare for the next day.
Speaker 1:You go back to class right in the afternoon and then you have to go practice and compete at a division one level and get ready to beat Team Shack, like you're saying, like for us, like we played teams like Michigan State, like Notre Dame, right, like Ohio State, Oregon, like you're playing power five conference level teams and you're expected to be able to compete. So like you're tired but you have to, you still have to compete at an extremely high level. And so that's that's the flow of you know division one athlete is morning workout, class, lunch, like film, back to class, then a two and a half hour practice, then dinner and then guess what? Then you have homework and then you have homework and if you're a plebe now you're doing plebe duties too.
Speaker 1:You're doing signature sheets, you're painting boards, you're trying to integrate with the classroom, you're studying your pro no right, like it is a massive demand on your time, and like being a Naval Academy athlete is is quite literally learning how to operate as a fully exhausted person, right Like you are constantly and consistently exhausted and you have to still be ready to to go perform at an extremely high level in everything that you're doing. So that's kind of the experience for me, and on the basketball side. I'm sure it was very similar as well on the track side, but I'll turn it over to you.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think, relatively. I think most of the athletes will have a general schedule that's pretty similar to that. It could be something in the morning you go to class, you probably do something. At lunch you go to more class and then you do something again in the afternoon. So for Kristen, my question next question would be what were your priorities as a fourth class midshipman? What everything that Grant just told us between academics, your sport and the requirements of a fourth class plebe midshipman, what were your priorities looking back when you were a plebe?
Speaker 3:I I think my biggest part is academics. I knew that would take me the furthest. I was so scared of getting on I probably called it. But when you didn't pass six weeks your grades weren't good enough and I I didn't want to sacrifice the little bit that they afforded us. So I worked really hard in the classroom and then I think the one thing I was scared of because I'm not the best swimmer- so I put myself on my own swim remedials, just so I could continue to do what I wanted to do on my own time.
Speaker 3:I would get up on the morning. We didn't have practice and swim, just like the past swimming, so I think that was my biggest stress on the daily grind on that, in addition to the practice and the lifts and the chopping through the hallways.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, I was just. I was going to cut in and say swimming is no joke. I look that may be the worst part of the whole thing. That may be the worst part of the whole thing Cause, like we're saying, one of your classes you got to go change out of your uniform, get into your swim clothes, go swim for an hour.
Speaker 1:What into your swim clothes, go swim for an hour. What like are you kidding? Like, go swim for an hour, then get out and be sprinting to your next class because you're going from the farthest building and the entire campus to the academic building so I think that just goes shows that another unique being a varsity athlete, specifically at the naval academy, is the extra requirements above.
Speaker 2:You know where's where there's dribbling the basketball or doing field events for track and field. You also have to be some type of level of a swimmer. I won't say varsity swimmer, but you also have to be a swimmer, a boxer and actually a wrestler as well. I just don't think that most varsity athletes around the world, around the US, are doing as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but if there's a person who's interested in the academy, who's thinking about coming, and you can't swim, don't let that be a deterring factor. It's going to stink because you're going to have to learn how to, but they are going to teach you. They are going to teach you. It's not like you have to show up in that way. Again, it's not going to be fun Full transparency. It's not going to be fun, Full transparency. It's not going to be fun because you're going to be swimming a lot and you're going to be going to swim remedials, I'm sure on top of your normal classes, but you can still do it. You can still do it. You're allowed to show up even if you're not very competent in the water, okay, great.
Speaker 2:So that's a little bit about the schedule, that's a little bit about the priorities, and then I'll go to this one over to Kristen first. So, as you're a plebe, right, you got third-class midshipmen, you got youngsters that are in front of you, you got second-class midshipmen that are in front of you, athletes on your team, and you got seniors, firsties that are also in front of you as well. And so what was your experience like of coming from high school and not having the most experience compared to somebody that's been at the academy for three years and, from a sports sense, trying to compete against them, because not everybody can, can can be a part of every single meet. Not everybody can be a part of every single game. So what was your experience and what's the reality like of trying to compete for, for a position on the team to actually, you know, was it throw, jump, play, and you're the new person in the hall?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think my challenge is I'm super competitive, so I didn't care what the rank was or the age. I wanted to try to be the best or try to make my mark or show that I could add to the team. So that was my focus. I would say plebeia. I remember it being particularly hard, so I think my body was just tired of getting adjusted to the schedule always moving around. I think it was just more draining than I had expected. So balancing that and then also for me getting on like a weight program was new.
Speaker 3:So I didn't really lift weights until I got to the Naval Academy and the track team we had like a person that gave us like a program, so all those things added together. So I'm glad I was able to balance that play here. I think it was a big challenge because I didn't hit the numbers that I thought I was going to hit or that I even when I was hitting in high school. It took me to my second year, my youngster year, to start seeing those same results.
Speaker 2:And did you get a chance to contribute as an active member in the meets or were you kind of in a secondary role of you know? There was a third class or a senior in front of me, so I didn't really get a chance to really get my chance. Freshman year- I did.
Speaker 3:I will say I was able to make my mark in triple jump.
Speaker 2:So that was my, that was my main event, took a backseat and everything else Okay, okay, awesome, and I'll put that question over to you, grant, because you're a plebe, right, trying to fight for a spot on the team to you know, contribute, and is it normal for a plebe to get a chance to start to play? Are you pretty much just a practice squad player where you give a look to the offense and the defense?
Speaker 1:Or what were your experiences like when you first really got to start training with the basketball team? Yeah, for me and I think this is actually would be very similar to any other program across the country on the basketball side is that answer is very dependent on the team that's currently there, the coaching staff, so it's more coaching staff related than it is naval academy related, if that makes sense. And so for. I was coming after a coaching change, so I was the new coach, ed DeCelis. I was his first recruiting class, so when I came in, there were not a lot of people who had stuck around in the program when the coach had changed.
Speaker 1:And so I came in and I played a lot as a plebe, which was super fun, right. Like I came in and I'm playing a lot, I'm contributing, I'm like man, this is great. Like this is what I signed up for, that's what I came for. Like this is incredible. And but at the same time, right how everything comes and goes.
Speaker 1:Once they had been established and the program started winning more, they brought in more talented and more talented and more talented kids.
Speaker 1:So by the time I was a second class in my junior year, there were people coming in who were better basketball players than I was Right. And so I went from like playing a lot as a plebe and playing a lot as a, as a, as a youngster, to like not playing much my junior and senior year because we just got better players, like there are people who are better than me that showed up and so you know it's one of those things where you again you're a part of a division one sports program where the coach's job is to win, straight up at like end of discussion. They're there to win and so you know obviously there's there's a sense of development, there's a sense of progression and coaching and mentoring and teaching, but they're going to put the best players on the floor who are going to give them the best chance to win and like that's just and that's just the truth of it, right? And so that was an interesting experience for me to learn and taught me a lot of life lessons, honestly, going through that process as well.
Speaker 2:As you're going through that process, right? You said as a plebe you're playing a lot Was maybe not as normal right for freshmen to play as so much and get so much time on the clock? Basketball, unlike football we may have 13 games a season. You guys had upwards of 30 games a season, more or less. So you're on the road going up to the Northeast. Can you talk a little bit about that? I remember a story you told me one time. Where you guys go up to whether it was like Pennsylvania or Maine or one of those Northeastern states you guys drive back. That same night you got to show back up at formation. Or what were the expectations of you as a plebe, even though you're, you're playing division one basketball?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I never knew. Again, I'm from California, I didn't. All these East coast schools, they mean nothing to me, right. So when someone said, hey, we're going to Holy cross today, I didn't realize that Holy cross is a nine hour drive from Annapolis. We, like, again, we got a good budget, naval Academy is a good sports budget, but we're still driving. Right, it's still a bus. We're not, you know, we're not flying.
Speaker 1:So again, you're taking a six, seven, eight hour bus ride up to, you know, up to Massachusetts. And then, like again, we would play our games Wednesday night at 7 PM. Right, and so the game goes from seven to nine or nine, 30,. You're on the bus at 10. We're driving back to Annapolis. You get back at like four to 5 AM.
Speaker 1:Right, and again, this is the Naval Academy, which means you don't get a sleep through your first couple of periods. Right, like again, as a varsity athlete, you get excusals while you're in season from the morning formation. So I didn't have to go to formation at 0700. But I did have to show up at class at 755. Right, so you get back on that from the bus trip at 5am and you're at class in uniform, shaved ready to go at 755am and then, guess what? You have film at lunch and you have practice in the the afternoon and you got to be ready to go because you got another game on Saturday, right, and so that that is.
Speaker 1:But that's the anecdote of the Naval Academy experience. And it's really difficult and it's, it's a grind, right, it's a grind, and it teaches, it develops such a serious sense of resilience, resilience, toughness and grit, because you have no choice but to but to like, just accept, to embrace the challenge and be ready to compete and show up constantly. Right and so that, but but yes, like, no, you're spot on it's. It's crazy because you get back at 5 am, it doesn't matter, you're showing up to class right there in a couple hours and that's the expectation yeah, that's so.
Speaker 2:So basketball has a lot of games. But, kristen, I think you, I think your situation is a little bit unique as well, because you have two seasons, you're playing, you're doing indoor track as well as outdoor track. You said a little bit earlier that one of your I mean your top priority was academics, so that you know you don't go unsaid and you know you take care of what you need to. So what kind of pressure was on you and what kind of tips do you have that help get you through going through two seasons, as also the plea duties as well? As? Was there any pressure from your coaches to really perform, or pressure on yourself, and how did you?
Speaker 3:get through that, what kind of help you get through those challenges Right? So the season was a little long. I think he started in October and it was just October on. So I think for me, just trying to compartmentalize and think of for me cause I I like to work out anyway, so I use indoor season as preparation for outdoor season I was like this is the goal I want to meet during outdoor season, so indoor season is going to be the buildup. I might not hit those records now, so I tried, I didn't put my.
Speaker 3:The pressure was not too much on track during the first season, if that makes sense Grade-wise. I just I think a few nights I would just up late. So, especially if I had to track, normally track meets were on Saturdays, but when they were during the week it was a little rough. She had to balance between, okay, am I going to get this done tonight or am I going to get sleep tonight, and, of course, balancing trying to perform at the track meet and, of course, balancing trying to perform at the track meet. So, like grant said, those, those daily requirements don't go away just because you're competing in your sport.
Speaker 3:If anything, I don't think anyone feels sorry for you because they're like hey, you're here, you chose to do your sport, that's just something extra that you enjoyed to do, which I did, so you just have to play that balancing act. I think that sometimes the challenging part was, let's say, I needed help with homework. So if I didn't have time to get extra instruction from instructors, really leaning on people on the team that were in the same majors, especially the older teammates, maybe they could help me with some of my homework and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2:So, networking that way within your yeah, so, understanding that, whether it's varsity track and field or varsity basketball, it seems like varsity athletes can be away from the company, your company mates, for a long time, and so I think that's an important note to bring up is you have your own little team right where you guys spend, whatever it is, six hours a day together. How did that affect your relationships with the company mates in your class that you went through all plebe summer with, but that once the academic and the sports years hit, you spend less time with them? So how did that yeah, how did that, how that turn out for you guys? How did that change or alter your relationships with your, with your company mates? And we can start with Kristen first. I see you shaking your head. Yeah, how did that work out for you?
Speaker 3:So the one thing that comes to mind is that we have rankings.
Speaker 1:I think that's the one negative.
Speaker 3:I hope I can bring out a positive out of this. But if you are top three or bottom three amongst your company class, you get a comment or some sort of annotation as to why you're top three or bottom three. So being an athlete, you're away from the company a lot. Your time is very split. So for me I didn't prioritize maybe those friendships because I wanted good grades and I wanted to do well at track. So your time is really cut short in that manner. So I didn't spend time with my company mates so they had no problems with me at the bottom or, you know, throwing whatever description they saw first. So that was disheartening sometimes and I had to accept that. And the unfortunate part is those rankings trickle into what we call an aptitude grade. So in some senses I thought it wasn't fair for me to get this grade that I thought I didn't earn, based on the effort that I was putting in.
Speaker 2:That's my experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, grant did you experience something similar or was your experience different? No, it's similar and I think, again, it's one of these things for people who are listening, right, if you're a prospective student coming in, thinking about coming and trying to play a sport at the academy, or if you're a parent just trying to understand the experience of your son or daughter, there is a little bit of a divide, right, we can pretend that there's not, but there's a little bit of a divide between lovingly the term NARP a non-athletic regular person, right, someone who's not a varsity athlete and varsity athletes, and I think it's truly just a lack of understanding and I feel like a lot of people feel like they hold this like there's almost a pride for like who struggles more, like my experience is harder, right, and so I think that's tough because I I roomed with other non-varsity athletes in my junior and senior year, just people who are in the company all the time, some of my good friends from the company, and they didn't realize because, again, freshman and sophomore year or plebe year and youngster year, I roomed with other varsity athletes, right, and so when I started room with them my second class and first year, they were like Grant, I didn't realize how often you were gone, right, like we didn't realize, like how much like you truly were gone for your sport, like we just assumed you were purposely like trying to get out of things or not show up to things or kind of utilize your excusal for military events to like not be here, right. And so I think again, much like everything in the world, there's a little bit of just lack of understanding. And I think when, again, either as someone who's not a varsity athlete or someone who is a varsity athlete, like trying just to make the extra effort and just communicate and show up, when you can let people know like hey, I'm not trying to get out of things, I'm just constantly gone, right. And I think once they saw that that again, I would miss Tuesday afternoon to classes all day Wednesday and get back at Thursday at four in the morning and then show up to class at 755. They didn't feel as bad when I wasn't at morning formation or like not at parade practice, right.
Speaker 1:And so there's, there's a certain level of just lack of, I would say, understanding between varsity athletes and the NARPs, just because they don't experience it and again, being a NARP that's not fun either. I don't want to go to parade practice. I don't want to stand out in the rain and march with a rifle for two hours. When I have a test tomorrow, I get it.
Speaker 1:That's not fun either, but I feel like there's a little bit of a head-budging match of like, oh, my experience is so much worse, you don't understand me, and so I think that's kind of where it derives from, and I think it's tough because, again, the varsity athletes are usually the minority in the company compared to the overwhelming. So I think, again, it's tougher to get like the varsity athlete experience, like trying to articulate like no, I do care, I do appreciate this, and it's just a little bit difficult because not as many people understand your experience, right, and so that's that's kind of what I experienced. It was really an eyeopening awakening when I had roommates who were like holy smoke, like I didn't realize this is what your schedule was like, right, and I think that was kind of the bridging to help kind of integrate me in a little bit more in my junior and senior year, because they truly just didn't understand the demand of our time and schedule.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's huge, man, what you said. I think you hit the nail on the head about understanding right, knowing what somebody else is going through, using a little bit of empathy, right, and then also as athletes, sharing that openly and as non-varsity athletes, being open and asking the varsity athletes what is your life like. I think that helps bridge the gap and it helps a little bit easier on both sides. But I think you, your, your experience is a little bit unique in that. Was it going into your first class year, right? You? You had to bill it as a regimental commander for Plebe summer, as a varsity athlete, and so can you talk a little bit about how your experience on the basketball court, did you learn anything leadership wise that helped you be a regimental commander? What is one of the? What is the top position in the midshipman chain of command throughout plebe summer?
Speaker 1:Yeah, my biggest lesson that I learned from my time at Navy basketball two factors, two lessons. The first is that the only things that I can control are my attitude and my effort. Right, there was a time when I went from playing a lot to not playing a lot, where I was very pouty. Right, I was like man, this isn't fair, I'm getting screwed over. Right, like, this is ridiculous. And I had a mentor of mine, old pookie, kevin Alter, right, and he came up to me out of a place of love and he's like you're being a quitter, like, you're pouting, like stop right. Like again, yes, this is your situation, this is the reality of your situation. Now you get to choose how you respond to it. Either you can embrace this with a positive attitude and bring up again an effort and try and help the team win, or you're just being selfish, right. And so for me, it was this idea of again, I have the ability to only control two things, and that's the attitude that I'm going to take and the effort that I'm going to give in whatever we're doing. And then the second thing that helped with that whole thing is that, again, I think the number one thing that makes team sports so great in like.
Speaker 1:Really, in addition to the Naval Academy experience is that, again, in order to win and in order to be a great team player, you need to know your role, acknowledge your role and then excel in your role. Right, it may not be the role that you want, right? When I was a junior senior, not playing a lot, that was not the role that I wanted, but the reality was that was my role right. So I needed to embrace that role and excel in that role and do whatever I could to help the team win. And if that meant being a great practice player, if that meant being super positive, if that meant involving myself in the brigade a little bit more to help men, relationships between the basketball team and the brigade of midshipmen then like, then that's what I was going to do, right, because that was what I could contribute to, like help the team in a positive way and help the team win. Right, because that was what I could contribute to, like help the team in a positive way and help the team win Right. And so for me, I love that. And it was really cool to be the reg commander because, again, it was this idea of what is your role.
Speaker 1:I feel like sometimes when people get high level leadership billets at the Brigade of Midshipmen, they're like so motivated and they want to train the plebs. I was like, well, if you wanted to train the plebs, you should have been a squad leader, like this, like that's not, this isn't your role as the reg commander. Like you come down with five stripes and walking through people's company spaces like things stop, like things stop, and you're getting in people's way, right. And so for me it was fun to realize, all right, when I'm in this spot, what's my role, how do I embrace that role and how do I excel? So for me it was like all right, how do I find midshipmen who are really struggling through thoughts of the day, through detailers, passing stuff up the chain and talking to me? And how am I going to go talk to them, help figure out what's in their situation and try and give them a little bit of encouragement, because they're getting beat down every day to keep them going through the process right.
Speaker 1:And so I love my experience because I was moments away as a from leaving, right, like I literally had conversations with my company officer about going to Tango Company and leaving.
Speaker 1:I was not about it. I didn't like it, and at that point in my life I realized how lucky and how grateful I was to still be at the academy, and so I wanted to be that for the next wave of midshipmen that we're going through right, and so that's what I love most about the role is I had the ability to go talk to all, like cherry pick from across the fourth class regiment and be able to, like go find that person who was struggling and like tell them just to wait one more day, right, like help them just kind of get calmed down from the emotional high, and like and make it to the next day. And so for me that was that was super fun, and that was again kind of what my, that's what my role was, that's where I could make the impact, and so I wanted to really do that well, right, and so those are the lessons that I learned through basketball. That really helped me kind of in the military side.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's great man. I'm taking notes as I'm hearing you speak with attitude, effort, knowing your role, embracing your role and excelling in that role. And I'm interested Christian, do you have a similar experience or can you share a little bit about what did you learn from doing indoor and outdoor and track and field, the biggest thing you learned, and how did that transition to being able to use that in a role within the brigade? I got it. You do a lot of stuff on the field, right, but how did you use that role? As they teach us, you know we want to develop mentally, morally and physically, and how did how did you use that? What you learned from from your sport?
Speaker 3:I think one like, like I said before, plea beer I struggled so hard and not hitting the goal that I like I could have been done with track. I was like this is it. I I'm terrible now. I was like I don't know what's going on.
Speaker 3:So just, I think, sticking to something that maybe you approach, just approaching it differently and not giving up and let's see the best way to say this yeah, so the biggest thing one thing is just approaching challenges differently and trying to figure out what works, whether it be with, like studying or dealing with different personalities. So that was the first time in my life I had to live with roommates so that was a challenge for me and figure out how to what works for you and how you can use your talents to bring people together, maybe work together. Track team another thing was teamwork and overcoming is not just me, who. The biggest thing of course with Naval Academy is the whole Army, the rivalry. So coming together for that, going from individual sport to this, is like OK, we got to come and win this and beat Army right now, and I know you guys shared those same goals there. I think those are the big things for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, so you talk about like the track team coming together and then you be able to work with your roommates and people in your company. But then after four years, right, life changes. We go from being a midshipman to being a junior officer in the Navy or the Marine Corps, and so you know the stakes are higher. Right, you're not worried about beating Army or trying to degrade at the pin relays, it's like no, you're facing the country's enemies right On a deployed ship, whether it's in Fifth Fleet or in the Pacific or wherever it may be around the world. And so you know, generally in the Navy, right, it's my understanding. Right, you get a division once you graduate. If you're a surface warfare officer in this case, can you talk a little bit about was there any relation from being on the track team to getting a division of sailors, and did you lose any leadership from being a varsity athlete to once you hit the fleet as a naval officer?
Speaker 3:So two examples I felt a very similar experience. So one with the track team. I was like the senior. I was senior on the track team. I wasn't the captain, but I was really ahead of all the jumpers. So like I was really close to them, really pushing them and kind of telling them what didn't work for me, almost like a side coach, if that makes sense. So that was pretty cool and getting that leadership aspect out the way, leading by example, always make sure I'm doing all my lifts properly and, you know, putting in a hundred percent effort for all the sprints and that sort of thing.
Speaker 3:The other leadership experience I had was I was able to be XO for Cleve Summer going into my first year. So that was like full circle moment. So I remember at first I wasn't sure if I wanted to do that. I was like man, I don't know if I'm equipped to lead the new Cleves coming in, but that was an awesome experience because in some ways I was leading the Cleves and I was leading my peers, so setting an example for them and kind of taking that step back and watching them make those stupid mistakes and kind of remembering those are the same mistakes that I made and then at the same time keeping my peers in check and kind of guiding them in their leadership style and doing like the end of day speech.
Speaker 3:I don't know if you guys remember that. So I think all those correspond now leading to my division and seeing those new sailors, new faces. It's their first ship and they're learning how to put their uniforms on for the first time and they're meeting their chief and figuring out how to do maintenance. So in those, in that same aspect, it's the newness and learning, a routine. Realizing that, just realizing how far I've come and how I can share those ideas with other people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, great. So that's great, being able to see that connection between your life on the track team and then being able to work with Plebes and then being able to work with Sailors and Grant. I'm interested to hear about your experience as you transitioned from not playing so much your junior and senior year, but then you transitioned from being a midshipman to a commissioned officer. Did you still see some of those, some of what you use in the basketball team to communicate and be a leader as a junior officer?
Speaker 1:Oh, 100%, 100%. I think like the two things that I'm most grateful for for team sports. One is the ability to have hard conversations right, like whether that's a coach talking to me or me talking to a teammate or teammates talking right. Like whether that's a coach talking to me or me talking to a teammate or teammates talking right. Like the ability to have uncomfortable conversations because we're not performing the way we're supposed to be performing was a huge skill that I learned from team sports. Right, because when you get out to the fleet again, you're going to care about people, you're going to love people, you're going to want to invest and help them win, and some people are still going to struggle or some people are not going to buy in and you're going to have to have uncomfortable conversations with people. And so for me, that had become a skill because, again, it's not coming out of a place of malice, it's not coming out of a place of like you're horrible and like you're a bad person. It's like, no, as a division, as a team, this is what we need to do to win Right. And again, if I'm on the basketball court and my teammates not setting screens the way they're supposed to be setting screens and the Nate the way they need to in order for us to like score a basket and for us to win. Like, yeah, we're going to say something Cause I'm like I want to win Right and so kind of taking that mentality of like, hey, this is a sense of accountability because I care, it's a sense of accountability because, like, I want to see us succeed not because I'm picking on you Right and so having that approach and that ability to have uncomfortable conversations, I think was like a huge translation between college athletics and like coming in in a leadership management position, going in right away, management position going in right away.
Speaker 1:And then again, I think kind of the number one thing and this is being a midshipman but also being a varsity athlete is it gets you really good at doing hard things. Being a student athlete at the Naval Academy is really hard. Increasing your triple jump, like record and length and distance, like that's really hard, because once you've hit a certain peak of athleticism, now it comes down to details, now it comes down to skill, now it comes down to routine and practice. And being great at your craft Right and like doing difficult things is something you just get used to. It's a muscle that you need to train.
Speaker 1:And so I loved, you know, my time as a varsity athlete and kind of going through adversity, overcoming adversity, facing difficult times, and then getting to the other side Because once I got to the fleet, now you're faced with real adult problems, right, like when you're a midshipman.
Speaker 1:It's all a little fairyland, like, yeah, I'm mad because my division one sports experience isn't going the way I want it to, right, like darn right. But then you get to the fleet and now there's a real sailor coming to you with real problems, right, and you're the one who has to help them with it and has to support them through it and has to get them the resources that they need, right. So, even though it's not a direct translation, it's this idea of not being afraid of confrontation and not being afraid of difficulty and being used to pushing through hard times that I think separates a lot of people in a really positive way, because they've experienced those things before and they're ready to take on whatever challenge that comes with being a leader and a manager right in the fleet or, you know, as a Marine. So that's kind of the biggest takeaways I had from my time as an athlete.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, and I think that tech, as we wrap up soon, I think that takeaway we just mentioned may be one of the biggest benefits. But I'll let Chris and I'll let you explain that. My question is advice to current high school students that may be considering the Naval Academy and they may be athletes, right, and there's a plethora of options out there and it seems like what you guys told me there's a lot of sacrifices at the Naval Academy, whether it's time, whether it's playing time at your sport, whether it's the military duties. What can you say or what advice would you give to a high school student that's debating should I sacrifice my freedom and some of those liberties that I have of going to you know, said name state school versus possible some of the future benefits of going through the Naval Academy and being able to experience some of the things that both you and Grant said? So what advice would you give to a current high school student that's battling those two sides?
Speaker 3:Right. So I mean for someone to be even considered for the Naval Academy. That already says a lot about you, your character, the effort you put in so far in your life. But I think what helped me make my I was so back and forth when I was going through that process. But going through the Naval Academy I remember I thought I could show up naked and be taken care of Like they give you your uniforms, they're giving you your books, they're giving you your backpack, they're giving you your food and they take care of everything. You don't have to worry. All you have to do is show up to class on time and, of course, practice if you're on the team, class on time and, of course, practice if you're on the team and on the back end.
Speaker 3:You have a job and it sets you up so well for whether you want to be in the military for 20 years, whether you want to be in for whatever the commitment is. But I just think the life experiences that you get, the it's such a unique experience. Anybody can go to a regular college, but very few select, get to be selected and go to the naval academy and go through the experience, learn the things we do, go through the summer trainings, get to ride on different types of ships, train with Marines I remember we played paintball with Marines, which was crazy go on a submarine. So all those experiences are just so unique and it doesn't have to be forever. I think it's worth it and I think you gain so much leadership. You learn a lot about yourself going through that experience.
Speaker 2:No, I think that's awesome. I think, one more of those experiences that you didn't mention because I think you're a little bit humble. But for those that don't know, kristen had actually the chance to go study an advanced degree right A master's degree at MIT, and she got a master's in mechanical engineering, which not everybody gets to do right. So congratulations on that. But, grant, I think you also have a special place. I know you also do almost many of the things that you do. You're also a referee on college basketball games. So, tying that into the new landscape of recruits that are coming up and NIL deals, what can you say? As far as, if I'm a student and I have the opportunity to potentially make large sums of NIL money versus going to the Naval Academy, which generally I'm not sure they're able to accept it, how do I balance that? What would attract me to the Naval Academy versus the opportunity to make thousands of dollars at another state school?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's difficult, right, it's difficult for sure, and it adds another level of complexity. And I'm not here trying to be like, oh yeah, just choose the service over. You know what I mean. But I think here's the reality and this is the advice I give to any high school student athlete in general who's dedicated a lot of time to being really good at their sport Don't let your sport use you.
Speaker 1:Use your sport to get where you want to go in life. Right, like, there are a lot of things Basketball got me into schools that I otherwise would not have been able to get to without basketball Right. Got me into schools that I otherwise would not have been able to get to without basketball right. And so if you allow your sport to jerk you around or drag you or you kind of become, you know, reliant upon that sport and you let it use you, you're in a bad situation. Whereas if you use the game of basketball or you use your sport to open doors, to get where you want to go in life, then you're really succeeding right. And this is where I think if you can use your sport to get an opportunity to go to a service academy, to go to the Naval Academy to go to West Point, to go to Air Force. You've opened up a path that is going to set you up for life.
Speaker 1:I genuinely believe that the Naval Academy was the best decision I ever made in my life and it's the best decision a lot of people have, because there's a real power in being a midshipman and becoming someone who is really good at overcoming adversity. There's unbelievable experience of being a junior officer, going to travel, like you're saying, getting graduate degrees. Like. You're set up for life with a career. You're making good money, right, you have a great career. You have path for progression. Whether that, you're making good money, right, you have a great career. You have path for progression, whether that be in the military or out. Right, you've set yourself up for massive success and massive life experience Getting an opportunity to serve the Navy and Marine Corps team, to get to lead sailors and Marines and be tasked with, like leadership and care and direction. It's incredible responsibility and an honor. And then, on top of that, you joined the Naval Academy Network.
Speaker 1:Right, when we talk about this, when we talk about setting yourself up for life. Right, not making a four-year decision, but making a 40-plus-year decision. Being a part of the Service Academy Network is so crucial and it's such a tight-knit network because of how difficult being a midshipman is, because of how difficult being a junior officer is right. It's those experiences that bond you around those common values of resilience, grit and toughness and get you ready to succeed wherever you want to go in life right. And so that's my biggest recruiting pitch that I have for service academies is that you have put in so much hard work as a young man or woman to put yourself in this spot to go to a service academy to play a sport. Now take advantage of that and go down the right path to set yourself up for life right For life. And I think that is like what separates the service academies in comparison to any other education right In terms of any other education, and so that's kind of how I feel about it.
Speaker 2:No, grant. Thanks for that note. I think you may have made one mistake. You said that going to the Naval Academy may have been the greatest decision that you made in your life, but I would beg to differ and say maybe the second best decision you made in your life.
Speaker 1:I can't have that next decision if it wasn't for going to the Naval Academy. That's all I'm saying For anyone listening. I just got engaged to my lovely fiancee, dominique. She's a class of 19 grad, she's a helicopter pilot, and so, yeah, I mean, choosing your life partner is the most important decision and that is the best decision I ever made in my life.
Speaker 2:But it only happened because I went to the Naval Academy, so no, it's great, so we're going to end it right there on that note. I out. No, it's great, so we're going to end it right there on that note. I just want to say thanks to Grant and thank you Kristen for it and again what our mission here at the Academy Insider is really to guide, to serve and to support midshipmen, future midshipmen and their families, to provide a little more insight so it's a little bit easier for you guys to understand what midshipmen are going through, and for prospective midshipmen, those high school students around the US and its territories that may be thinking about a service academy. So thank you again Kristen, thank you again Grant for sharing your experiences and, without a doubt, I know this podcast is going to be able to have an effect on the families of Mitch Shidman Mitch Shidman and future potential Mitch Shidman. So thank you guys.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Academy Insider Podcast. I really hope you liked it, enjoyed it and learned something during this time. If you did, please feel free to like and subscribe or leave a comment about the episode. We really appreciate to hear your feedback about everything and continue to make Academy Insider an amazing service that guides, serves and supports midshipmen, future midshipmen and their families. Thank you.
