The Academy Insider Podcast - Your Guide to The Naval Academy Experience
The mission of Academy Insider is to guide, serve, and support Midshipmen, future Midshipmen, and their families. Through the perspective of a community of former graduates and Naval Academy insiders, this podcast will help you learn about life at the United States Naval Academy in Annapolis. Through our shared experiences, Academy Insider guides families through the anxiety and frustration caused by lack of understanding, misinformation, and confusion. This platform is designed to better relationships between midshipmen and their loved ones. This podcast is not affiliated with the United States Naval Academy, the United States Navy or Department of Defense. The thoughts and opinions are exclusively those of your host and his guests.
The Academy Insider Podcast - Your Guide to The Naval Academy Experience
#047: A Parent's Journey Through the Naval Academy w/ Karl Smith
How do you navigate the emotional roller coaster of parenting a midshipman? Karl Smith, a two-time Service Academy parent, shares his heartfelt journey with us. From his son Noah's intense Plebe Summer at the Naval Academy to his current role as a Lieutenant JG on the USS Florida, Carl provides a reflective and invaluable perspective. We also draw comparisons with his daughter Katie's experiences at the Air Force Academy. Tune in as Carl opens up about the evolving dynamics between parents and their midshipman children and the importance of personalized support.
Every family's story is unique, and Karl's insights underscore that truth. He offers powerful advice on handling the highs and lows, such as not making permanent decisions based on temporary emotions. From the pride of watching a child captain a boat at Fleet Week to the anxiety of potential expulsion, Karl's experiences are a testament to the resilience required in supporting loved ones at military academies. Learn how preparedness and experience can be your best allies in these demanding environments.
We also explore the contrasting experiences between the Naval Academy and the Air Force Academy, highlighting the more inclusive nature of events like I-Day and Herndon at the Naval Academy. Karl's projects, including his blog, My Kid the Mid, his book "Anchored in Tradition," and his soon to be released book, "Flying High and Diving Deep," aim to provide new parents with valuable insights and support. With authenticity at its core, this episode stresses the importance of understanding and embracing each midshipman's unique journey at the academy. Join us for an episode full of wisdom, authenticity, and heartfelt stories.
He answers questions such as:
- How did you balance the selflessness of not being a burden on your son
but also staying involved, engaged, and interested in his experience at the Naval Academy?
- How would you describe the Naval Academy journey as a parent?
- How different has the experience been between the Air Force Academy (USAFA) and the Naval Academy (USNA)?
The mission of Academy Insider is to guide, serve, and support Midshipmen, future Midshipmen, and their families.
Grant Vermeer your host is the person who started it all. He is the founder of Academy Insider and the host of The Academy Insider podcast and the USNA Property Network Podcast. He was a recruited athlete which brought him to Annapolis where he was a four year member of the varsity basketball team. He was a cyber operations major and commissioned into the Cryptologic Warfare Community. He was stationed at Fort Meade and supported the Subsurface Direct Support mission.
He separated from the Navy in 2023 and now owns The Vermeer Group, a boutique residential real estate company that specializes in serving the United States Naval Academy community PCSing to California & Texas.
We are here to be your guide through the USNA experience.
Connect with Grant on Linkedin
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If you are interested in sponsoring the podcast, have an idea, question or topic you would like to see covered, reach out: podcast@academyinsider.com.
Welcome to Season 2 of the Academy Insider Podcast. Academy Insider is a 501c3 nonprofit organization that serves midshipmen, future midshipmen and their families. At its core, this podcast is designed to bring together a community of Naval Academy graduates and those affiliated with the United States Naval Academy in order to tell stories and provide a little bit of insight into what life at the Naval Academy is really like. I hope you enjoy it. Thank you so much for listening and reach out if you ever have any questions. The Academy Insider Podcast is sponsored by the Vermeer Group, a residential real estate company that serves the United States Naval Academy community and other select clientele in both California and Texas. If I can ever answer a real estate related question for you or connect you with a trusted Academy affiliated agent in the market which you're in, please reach out to me directly at grantatthevermiergroupcom. You can also reach out to me on my LinkedIn page, grant Vermeer, and I'd be happy to respond to you there. Thank you so much, and now let's get back to the episode. Hey everyone, and welcome to the Academy Insider Podcast.
Speaker 1:Today, I'm joined by Carl Smith, who's a two-time Service Academy parent. He had a son, noah, from the class of 2020, and a daughter, kate, who's currently going through the Air Force Academy, and in this episode we talk all about the parent journey, the parent experience, from Plebe here all the way to the end and commissioning and beyond in his relationship with his son in the fleet. So if you're getting ready to start Plebe Summer, or you just have a son or a daughter who is at the Naval Academy or is going to the Naval Academy or is interested in the Naval Academy, I think you'll really enjoy this episode because we touch all on the relationship dynamic between a parent and a midshipman. We talk about the best ways to support your son or daughter, the ways to approach difficult conversations and we talk about the experience at large, kind of with the main message of being your experience is the right experience. That is, what you're going to get out of this episode is that you don't have to match a certain mold of going through the academy. There are going to be a million different experiences, a ton of people who have different thoughts and opinions on how to do this, and we just want to let you know that your experience is the right experience. So if you're interested in hearing our conversation, I encourage you to take a listen.
Speaker 1:I appreciate you being here. Thank you so much, and if you ever have any questions for me or Carl on this podcast, feel free to shoot me a message at Academy Insider and we'll make sure to get you taken care of. So thank you so much. I hope you have a great day and enjoy the episode. Hey everyone, and welcome back to the Academy Insider podcast, carl. Thanks so much for taking the time to join us today. For anyone who may not know Carl, first off, we just got to get you back to an old Academy Insider episode in which Carl joined us. This is round two on the podcast, but for anyone who may not know you, do you mind just giving a little bit of context and background about yourself and your children and where they're at Sure absolutely yeah, thanks Grant.
Speaker 2:And where they're at Sure absolutely yeah, thanks Grant. Great to be back. By the way, I'm happy to see Academy Insider 2.0. How about that? So my son Noah entered the Academy in 2016, so he commissioned in 2020. I started writing a blog, my Kid the Mid, about a year and a half into that experience. I've been maintaining that ever since it's still active. Ever since it's still active. My daughter, kate, entered the Air Force Academy prep school in 2020 and is now a second-class airman at the second-class cadet at the Air Force Academy, and she'll be commissioning in 2025.
Speaker 1:Very cool. And Noah, what's he doing now out in the fleet, exciting stuff? What does he have to do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so he's a Lieutenant JG on the USS Florida, which is a guided missile submarine out of Kings Bay. He's on his third deployment. I don't think this is violating OPSEC, since it's pretty obvious to anybody. They're in Guam right now. We're getting ready for their next deployment, doing maintenance. So, yeah, and this will be his last appointment with the Florida and he'll go to shore duty after that, which will be, I'm sure, a whole other chapter of learning and excitement for all of us Semper deep, semper deep, yeah, right, exactly, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Very cool. Well, thank you so much again for joining us today and for everyone listening. The premise of today's episode is really going to be all about the parent journey and the parent overall experience at the Naval Academy, and what I'm so excited about now is reengaging in this conversation, genuinely, about five years after the original conversation is. Now you have a little bit of perspective and you have a comparison to your daughter's experience at the Air Force Academy, and so I kind of want to just jump back to the original conversation we had, in which case you talked a little bit about Noah, worrying about Noah becoming completely engulfed in the military lifestyle and your perspective as a parent and realizing, hey, I'm about to probably for lack of a better term lose my kid right and turn them over to the military lifestyle. Now, with that perspective perspective, do you believe that to be the case? How is your relationship with noah after dropping them off at plebe summer and going through and continuing now into the fleet?
Speaker 2:yeah, well, it's, it has changed and it's I'd say it's changed dramatically, and I don't say that in a negative context, and I think most parents would say that's what happens when your kids start to adult. Sure, right, but the military thing and this is I've referenced this before your time as an academy parent prepares not just your child to be in the fleet, it prepares you to have a child in the fleet. So limited contact with them, for example, that becomes a thing, so you kind of get used to that. You know, when my son's a submariner, so that means you know they're semper deep, that means you're not going to hear from them for months on end at times, and, frankly, it was kind of like that at the Naval Academy. So, in that way, it's the same, yeah. So I think that would be the main thing I'd say is yeah, you do.
Speaker 2:He has embraced the military lifestyle. I think what he's learning, though, is, once you're out in the fleet, it's your job and it's like any job, and you kind of learn to adapt your life around it, and it took him a while to get his feet under him once he got on the fleet, but now I think he's to the point where you know he's traveling a little more, he's doing some things, he's embraced and I think he's definitely making it work for him now?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and you mentioned in the episode as well just kind of this idea of this separation from your child, dropping them off for a plebe summer and everything that's going on. How did you, again now, with perspective, how did you navigate and balance the selflessness of kind of letting go and understanding they have to go through this journey, while also staying invested, engaged, attentive and just a part of your son's life through the experience?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll tell you something. I think that's something I find a lot of parents really grapple with is very involved with my son's life. Obviously, you're attending all his concerts and all his sporting events and he's asking you for help with his homework and all that, and then that just switches dramatically and I think you have to, as a parent, you have to adapt to that. What I've tried to do with no one who's at the academy is you have to become a better listener, and one of the comparisons I've made is you're a dumpster in some ways, especially those first year or two. They have no one to go to. Their roommates are in the same deep pile of garbage that they are. The rest of their squad doesn't want to hear it. The upperclassmen, you know, are just there, are making it difficult. They're the ones making it difficult. Who are they going to go to? So sometimes you're it.
Speaker 2:There are times when you get a phone call and it's a half an hour and you're in half an hour of them, just like unloading all this emotional baggage and garbage and classes are awful and my chain of command they don't care, and all that stuff. And then and this is something I took from you during our conversation. It's a moment in time, that's just that moment, because the minute they hang up that phone, I've come to learn oftentimes they're fine, oh, the burden is lifted, I no longer have that. I dumped it on my dad and you're the dumpster. So you have to take this thing and do something with it and you learn, as a parent, to process what is really a crisis, what is really something they need help with and what is just them venting because they don't have that escape valve all the time. So you become that and I think that's something I learned to be a better listener, to discern what was important, to ask questions.
Speaker 2:And a lot of times when he was in a decision point, less directive and a lot more just take, because you have perspective, tense, it's so fast, rapid, you don't have time, yeah, you don't have time to think. So when he was on the phone with me, that's what I thought was my chance to get him to breathe for a minute and I would just put considerations for him out there. Have you considered this? What about this?
Speaker 2:Not directed, but just getting that, because he's in that moment and sometimes you know a decision you would probably take an hour to make. Now you've got to make in five minutes. Five minutes, so you know, right, so you get them to stop and can take those considerations into the mix and then you know, let them kind of make the decision from there. I think that really it took me a while to get there, but I think as he progressed and got to like you know youngsters second, you know a second class firsty, and he learned too, when he came to a conversation he'd say I've already considered these things, what am I missing? And it became a more efficient conversation.
Speaker 1:Sure, no, I think that's incredible and that's something that my dad did with me as well, and it's something that parents can do and provide a true value and service to their kids. In my opinion, and the reason being is, like you're saying, because everything is moving so fast at the academy, you generally operate making emotional decisions if you don't take the time to pause, right. And so, in, the number one way to counter emotional decisions is just by pure pausing and then with logic, right, and kind of like you were saying, it was never logic by statement, it was logic by inquisition, right, and it's like how can I ask the questions that are going to make my son or daughter realize what actually is going on and what they need to consider and what they need to process? Right, and I tell this story about Plebe Summer a lot. Obviously.
Speaker 1:There were a lot of examples through the course of my time at the academy, because it necessarily wasn't my favorite early on, but there were a lot again, a lot of conversations with my dad where I was like I just want to go home, like I want to leave. I don't think he's saying like I want to leave and he's like, all right, well, let's just take a second. If you leave, what do you want to do? Like, where would you want to go? Right, where would you apply to? What do you want to do? You know, I'm just letting you know again the school you just mentioned.
Speaker 1:The application windows closed, right? So if you want to go that route, you're going to have to go to, like, junior college for a year or whatever in the meantime before you reapply, because the basketball team is not going to take you mid year, right? Like you have to wait a year, like a full year, it's not, you just get to start up in the semester, and so you know, there are a lot of things where just simple questions, the simple logic to take away the emotion of it and put ration and logic into the forefront of your brain can be so tremendously helpful, right? And so you know, that was something that I always found, again, because if you come with statements, statements lead to more emotion, right? You're like I don't want to hear that right.
Speaker 1:But you know, simple patient questions can be a lifesaver in these situations. Just to get you to pause and really consider all of the different factors that you need to right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. Noah had his kind of, his dark night of the soul in October.
Speaker 2:He really started to have that you know I might be done. And when I said to him, I said well, here's what I would ask you to think about. What is it that you don't like about being a plea versus what you don't like about being at the academy versus what you don't think you'll like about being in the fleet? And he thought about it and we didn't talk about it until Christmas. So it was a good two months.
Speaker 2:Two and a half months later, when he was home for that extended break and he had given a lot of thought, and he said, well, I think 90% of it's being a plea, I said, okay, well, it's finite. That means you've got five months left of it If you think the rest of it's worth it. And that's where he kind of but you're right, it's simple questions, get questions, get in to stop because, right, if it's emotional, they're going to. And again, if you make that declarative statement, well, if they had said, grant, you should do this. Well, now it becomes an emotional back and forth, right, and you're not going to get to the right answer Never.
Speaker 1:Never. And yeah, it's something that again you follow Academy, et cetera. I'm sure you'll see it a lot. It's a theme of mine that, with perspective, I really realized because I'm so grateful that I decided to stick it out right. The Naval Academy was the best decision I ever made in my life, and there were multiple occasions where I almost threw that away because I was going to make an emotional decision, and so, for me, my number one piece of advice whenever I talk to anyone about all of this is to never make a permanent decision based on temporary emotion.
Speaker 1:That is the number one lesson that I learned during my time my personal experience in the military because had I made a permanent decision based on my temporary emotion of just being unhappy and much like you said, which a lot of it was just associated with being a plebe and being away from home and going through the growing pains of of adapting to a new way of life, I would have thrown all of this away. Yeah, and so that's my number one piece is never make a permanent decision based on temporary emotion, and I just I couldn't agree more with the actual questions that you were suggesting and talking about in your experience. I mean, those are the kinds of things that provide real value. Provide real value?
Speaker 2:Yeah, agreed, and those are the kind of things that provide real value.
Speaker 1:Provide real value. Yeah, agreed, and so you know, talking about perspective now and taking a step back, looking with perspective at your journey through the Naval Academy, we'll kind of keep it at the Naval Academy right now. Okay, how would you describe your experience as a parent of a Naval Academy midshipman? Parent of a Naval Academy midshipman what would you say are the most difficult aspects of being a parent of a midshipman, but then also the most joy-inducing and positive aspects for your experience as a parent at the Naval Academy? Sure.
Speaker 2:I think it parallels the midshipman. It's a roller coaster ride. There were some moments of absolute kind of panic and despair. There's a lot of radio silence, which you know when you're left alone with your own thoughts and nothing good is going to happen out of that. And then there were those moments where, like, I can't believe how amazing this is and I think that as you go along, you start to roll with it a little more. You start to learn how to handle those things. Like I said, you start to understand what's the crisis and what is just that moment in time. So and it can happen really fast so I think it was the summer after youngster year, noah was on a YP going up to Fleet Week in New York City.
Speaker 2:So you know, we were in Philadelphia at the time. So we take the train up and we're on the trip and there you see him, he's captaining the boat. Bring it in. He was in his summer whites. You're like what a great moment this is. You know, flags are flying, it's sunny and we had we had lunch with him. He's like this, this is just. You know, you're, this is everything you thought it was going to be. And he goes hey, let's have dinner with my friends and he's been put into the honor system.
Speaker 1:And he's in deep water, right, yeah, that's not fun.
Speaker 2:And you know.
Speaker 2:So then it's like so you've gone from this amazing moment where now he's like Dad, you don't understand, like this could be the end of it, they could kick me out, and you know.
Speaker 2:And so for like 36 hours there was this incredible angst hanging over you and, long story short, it was once he has a misunderstanding. He had everything he needed to show that he was totally off the hook and the whole thing, but you still had to go through the process. So you vacillate. That's the kind of thing. But when I think about seeing him at Fleet Week and him going to Knowles National Outdoor Leadership School in Alaska for 30 days, seeing him play with the Trident Brass and with the orchestra, and then him making the sprint football team I was there the moment he set his foot on a college football field for the first time, which was a great feeling as his former coach. Being there when they beat, being at St Thomas Aquinas when they beat Army to win the sprint football title, those moments you just can't't and you can't replace those, and those are the moments you're like, you understand the gravity of what it means to be an academy parent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's incredible. It really is cool, and the separation of all of it and all the amazing things that come with it. And how have you taken that experience, from being a parent at the Naval Academy to now following your daughter's journey at the Air Force Academy? Has it been similar and different? What did you take from round one and bring it to round two?
Speaker 2:Well, the good news is for me as a parent is Kate did a very good job of very quietly Now she's not like a nonstop talker but she watched Noah very closely and she learned a lot, I think, about how he handled himself and what she kind of learned from some of his missteps. So when she got out there she knew the drill a little more than he did going in and I think she was better prepared for that. And as parents go into that a second time with the summer, that first summer is going to be like you know you're going to get the. You know already knew you know going to send out the daily messages, going to send out the cards, already had that in place and you know when the phone calls are going to come, be ready for the phone calls. That made that made the transition for me a lot easier and I think for her knowing, seeing that, knowing that that first summer was going to be horrible and she had to do it twice because she went to the prep school, so both summers are awful, but she knew what it was going to be. Um, and you know. So, when it got awful, she knew it was going to be awful, but she knew it was going to end and she saw how noah had kind of uh processed all that. So that really helped an incredible amount.
Speaker 2:Um, knowing and it's it's a different experience. Air force is a much, much different environment than navy uh, not quite as restrictive, not, I would say, I don't say not as tough, because it's plenty tough, but it it's just not as restrictive, I guess the best way to put it. So I definitely felt like there's a little bit of a little bit of an advantage there for her. Um, I always felt air force was the right spot for her. So I think that we were better prepared, she was better prepared, I was better prepared, and that really made that whole thing a lot more smooth?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, absolutely. And it's funny that you mentioned talking about Katie being very attentive and very aware and almost studying Noah's experience, because early on you talked about Noah's complete lack of preparation for pre-summer. Then he kind of just like winged it. He's like I'll just show up you're talking about, like getting asked about the chain of command, and he's like, yeah, sir, I'll find out. Sir, like that, that's not the one you want to find out about when you're supposed to know.
Speaker 2:I said they threw him that softball because he said he was dead. I, dad, I was doing awful and he goes. He said what's the chain of command? And he said sir, I'll find out, sir. And the guy's jaw literally dropped Like how could you miss the easiest thing ever? So, yeah, he went in without any prep, got absolutely steamrolled. I day was my worst day as a parent. Pleap sermon was a stem-to-stern, miserable experience. I would say Kate does not want to go through BCT again, but definitely was. The intensity coming from her was a lot lower because she did have that prep in front of her.
Speaker 1:Sure yeah, and so she did. She kind of learned from that lesson and prepared going into her report day. What do they call it at the Air Force Academy?
Speaker 2:It's I-Day.
Speaker 1:It's.
Speaker 2:I-Day induction day Same type of thing.
Speaker 1:Same thing yeah, oh great.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And so the biggest difference, I think as a parent is the Naval Academy really opens its arms to the parents and they make you part of the experience. Air Force Academy, much different animals. So you know, at I-Day I think Noah's report time was like 8 am, so we dropped them at Alumni Hall, said our goodbyes, went back and had breakfast. Then you have the big picnic at Hospital Point and you know you've met all the parents, clubs and all the things, and then you go into Alumni Hall and the soup is there and the commandant is there and Chet's there talking about athletics. It's all awesome.
Speaker 2:Then you have that big thing in front of you know, a tea court, the Blue Angels court, the blue angels fly overhead. It's this great, incredible moment uh, at air force, you pull up, the kid gets out of the car and that's it. Like there's no hugs, there's nothing. You wave and they're gone. Yeah, exactly, good luck. So that that was just a much to me. That was a little more jarring, I guess. When I read about it I said, yeah, I understand that, but it's, you know, to go from that.
Speaker 2:All that at navy, and then it at herndon, which is, of course, the capstone to Plebe year. Parents are there, the band is there, People are screaming, it's awesome, and Air Force has what they call recognition, which is a much different animal, but it does end their first year, or duly year. It's a totally insular event Just the cadets and that's it. Event just the cadets and that's it. So I think for me that was a bigger adjustment. Probably then for Kate and Noah not being as tuned in to, you know, and being as a part of a lot of those events, that was a much different experience for sure. So the lesson I have for the Navy parents is take advantage of that. Like you know, go to the parents weekend. Go to the Herndon climb. You know, every time there's a chance to get parents weekend, go to the herndon climb. You know.
Speaker 1:Every time there's a chance to get on the yard, to be involved with something that's happening, make it happen for sure yeah, I feel like that's really interesting because from and it's funny because I would consider us like very well versed in like service academy life just by having gone through it and everything is I would just assume that you could basically parallel all three experiences between, again, west point, air force, navy and even coast guard. But it sounds like right. They're actually not as similar or like direct comparisons or parallels as you would necessarily assume, so that's a lot.
Speaker 2:It's a. It's a lot different. It's a lot different. And you know, uh, we're preparing now for Kate's Kate commissions next year, so of course, we lost our commissioning week in 2020. But you know, commissioning week at Navy it's like a national holiday.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. Yeah, you know, Annapolis shuts down for a week. Yeah, you got blue angels flying around.
Speaker 2:Everything shuts down.
Speaker 1:It's a huge, huge event.
Speaker 2:You know you got the moms on Facebook comparing dresses, like you know what dress am I going to wear, what's the hat I'm going to wear, and you know it's a whole week long thing. At Air Force. There's two or three days and you know there's a parade and then there's commissioning and there's graduation and that's the end. It's the end of it. So it's a much not quite the enormous event out in Colorado Springs as it is in Annapolis. Sure, wow.
Speaker 1:What a time. Well, again, like you're saying, it's very cool and, for anyone who's already listening to Academy Insider, like that's great and I'm very excited, but I would encourage you, like you're saying, to take advantage of all of the resource because of the Naval Academy's approach to engaging parents and the community of people who contribute to that, which includes you. And so, again, I just kind of want to touch on for any new parent who may be coming through. I want to give you the opportunity to talk about the book you wrote, anchored in tradition, and a little bit more about my mid the kid, and is that something that you're continuing to do? Are you still making edits or revisions or updates, and what would you encourage people to look out for and just give a synopsis of what you're doing with those things?
Speaker 2:Sure, so I started the blog. Um, I want to say it was early in Noah's uh, youngster year, you know, my kid, the mid um, and it really was. For me it was a catharsis.
Speaker 2:I was, you know, still incredible amount of stress you know, trying to adapt to that and I just started, you know, as a writer by trade. That was just the natural outlet. So you know that has been in existence. And I started one for KateMyKidTheCadetcom and I have not updated either one of them as frequently as I would have liked. A touch on that in a minute.
Speaker 2:But I then put together Anchored in Tradition, which is really just a research book, and the, the. The whole thing that kind of got me started on that is how can you participate in a conversation about the Naval Academy, any conversation with Naval Academy. So this is a book of trivia, facts, figures, jokes. You name it so that if you flip to any page and just start reading, and if someone's talking about the Naval Academy, you'll be able to be a part of the conversation. So that was kind of the whole premise there.
Speaker 2:So what has precluded me from really blogging a lot over the last year and a half has been a new book project which, um, I just finished the last chapter last night and uh, and starting production on it. Um, and it's uh, flying high and diving deep and it's a kind of a um retrospective of my experience as a uh, as a two-time military academy parent. I wanted to write something in a more narrative form. So if you read either of the blogs and you like that style, imagine that on steroids. So it's deeper dives into some of those subjects. And again, I just felt it was time to kind of collect all of those thoughts and dive a little deeper into some of them Because, you know, I spent a lot of time going into the kids' journey to get there and their time while they're there and there's some details that I think people will find useful, because what I found from the blog is that people connect with those stories. They connect with it. I've tried to be very real with the blog. We've had our struggles Noah has struggled, katie has struggled, I've struggled. We've had some celebrations and I've tried to be very transparent with that. So I've had a lot of parents reach out to me when their kids are having a challenge.
Speaker 2:One of the most read pieces on the blog to this day a mom shared the story of how her son voluntarily left the academy and she was incredibly honest about it.
Speaker 2:The son gave her full you know full permission to go ahead and tell the story and I think that that kind of stuff's important. You know that people, you know, some people on the outside have this, this belief that once you get that, um, you get that, that acceptance to the academy, that it's disneyland you know that it's, you know it's, you know your, your life now is is, uh, unicorns and cotton candy and uh, it's a great honor and it's a great opportunity, but it's hard, um, and I think to be able to be honest about that has been, I think it's been kind of driving force behind the blogs and now, uh, the, the book, uh, you know this new book that's going to be coming out, um, so it's been, it's been. You know, again, my experience has been the parents have been very receptive to the blogs and when I've talked to some folks about the book, they've been very encouraging about it. So I'm excited. I'm excited to get more of the stories out there and to see what kind of feedback I get from that.
Speaker 1:No, absolutely Well. First off, I think the title is awesome, well executed, thank you. Well executed, thank you, but kind of in a similar vein, as we talk about the real personal aspect of your blog and talking a lot about the relationship dynamic between you and your son and the kid and elsewhere, Is that what we can expect in the Naval Academy and the Air Force Academy journey?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so there's a lot of personal experience in the book and that's really what I wanted to share was the experience of a Naval and Air Force Academy parent. So, yes, I try to very much kind of stay true to that. And it's a great question, grant, about the nature of the relationship. You know, noah, look, he's the first child and that means he's the test dummy, right? So you know, we learned a lot of lessons from that experience and the experience with Katie is a little different. You know, katie and I have, you know we have a different relationship because she's adopted.
Speaker 2:We have a different relationship because she's adopted and you know the fact that I went to China and physically took her from there and brought her home. I think that just by that nature there's a little bit of a different dynamic there. You know, I think the son-daughter thing is a thing you know, noah and I were very close to both my children but it's definitely a different type of connection both my children but it's definitely it's definitely a different type of connection. You know Katie, katie will call me in and we, we video chat up every week and she'll call me. You know tears just streaming down her face, all snotted up about, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and then the call will end and she'll send me a message. Thanks, dad, I feel better. Boom done, you know, boom Done.
Speaker 2:Noah would internalize those things a lot more. We'd have a lot more of those conversations about me having to spell out considerations and potential consequences. He needed that thought. With Katie we don't have to quite get to that because she's used to thinking like that. I think the experience again at the Naval Academy I would kind of get upset if something was happening. He had a solo with the orchestra his plebe year. Thankfully, his sponsor, mike Cavanaugh, shout out to Mike, great sponsor captured on video. So they just got to see some of Mike. No, what happened? Well, you know this. That Mike, okay, but with Kate I never have to worry about that, because that's just not the way the Air Force Academy is wired.
Speaker 2:You know, so it's, it is it's, it's definitely different, it is definitely different.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I think I again, I want to take this point to again talk to all the parents that that may be listening which is your experience with your son or daughter or your loved one.
Speaker 1:Your midshipman will likely be different than everything that we're sharing as well, and I think that's really.
Speaker 1:I think your case example is perfect, that even between you know, your two children, right, the two people that you've raised and loved and nurtured like their experiences were different, based on personality type, based on communication style, based on the way they process things, and based on the institution, their experience, and there are so many variables at the academy, what company you're in, who their detailers are, what major they're in, what sport they're a part of, the experiences and the journey can be vastly different and obviously the baseline foundation is the same, and plebe summer is going to be about the same, despite the detailers and the company that you're a part of, right, right, but there's so many ways that this could go, and so I would just encourage anyone that, if you resonate with something that we said, that you reach out and you find mentors in the community and you find mentors in the space, because the large likelihood is there is someone who has a very similar relationship with their son or daughter, that can help you through it.
Speaker 1:But there are also going to be people who have very different experiences through the right experience because, um, I you know.
Speaker 2:I'm reading these Facebook posts and they're just a flood of this is amazing. My kid's having the best time, he's right where he needs to be. Oh, it's the. You know, they're so awesome and I'm thinking my son's living through hell Like what, what, what, academy and, and what I found is, when I started writing those types of things, parents were responding saying oh my God, I thought it was just me, I thought it was the only one, and I'm like no, listen, there are going to be people and there are some men and women, grant and I'm sure you experienced this who they dreamed about going to the academy their whole life.
Speaker 2:They got to the academy and it was everything they ever hoped it would be, and they had four years of magic and it me their whole life. They got to the Academy and it was everything they ever hoped it would be, and they had four years of magic and it's fantastic. And they got exactly what they wanted for service selection and they're a 18 star Admiral now. You know, and good on you, but, um, you know, there are those that struggle and stumble across the finish line. You know, um, there was a? Uh, there was a person in Noah's squad. I'm sorry, company. He had a company at the academy.
Speaker 2:When he went into induction day he said we got three calls. He told his mother you won't be getting a call from me. I'm going to call my girlfriends plural. I'm like okay, I want to complain that yeah, my son spent most of his breaks winter and spring breaks at home. A lot of them they go skiing. The one mom said yeah, I haven't seen my son. My son has been home for two. This was after a youngster year. My son hasn't been home since I dropped him off at I-Day. That was two years and you know what? That's the experience. So you're right, and I would beg parents to don't get caught up in the Facebook highlight reel.
Speaker 2:Don't get caught up in everybody having the most amazing time ever and if you are challenged, struggling, not sure to find somebody. There was a mom and I've never asked her if I could use your name, so I won't, I won't. But during plebe summer she reached out to me on Messenger, facebook Messenger, and she held my virtual hand through the next six weeks and I am so thankful and she just did it because she saw me struggling with some of the posts I was making on Facebook and she, you know, we went back and forth, went back and forth long messages about you know, this is how it works, this is what you can expect. And, um, and you know, cause I had no one to turn to, cause I was the dad, right, I couldn't go to Noah, he was useless, he was drowning.
Speaker 2:Uh, the rest of my family was looking to me to kind of be the rock. And this, this woman who I I to this day have have never met face-to-face, just out of the goodness of her heart, held my hand to that. So you're right, exactly right. There is somebody who's having a very near experience. Look, I know a guy who was in your class ended up becoming the XO. I think, was on the basketball team and wrote a note to his mom that said I hate this place. I just want to be happy. Yeah, yeah it's ringing a bell it's ringing.
Speaker 1:I don't know who. That was not sure. I'm not trying to get personal grant, but uh, you know, yeah, I'm not trying to disclose secrets or anything but that.
Speaker 2:That that is. I think that's the epitome of what it's all about. That, um, you know, everybody's having a different experience. There's this, I think people see pictures of the brigade and they all look the same, right, whether they're in their their parade uniform or their, their summer whites, they all look exactly the same. And you think these kids, all 4,000 of them, are pa-pa-pa-pa. And you told me once everyone's there for their own reason. Yeah, you're right. And there's 4,000 midshipmen and there's 4,000 stories and 4,000 experiences. There's not this one brush with which we can paint them all. So your experience is the right experience. If you want to be at every home football game, be there. If you don't, don't. Don't feel like you have to do this or you have to do that, because some people will feel like it's kind of keeping up with the Joneses. Oh, I have to have a big house for commissioning week no, you don't. I have to have a fancy dress for the? No, you don't. You don't't have to do anything.
Speaker 1:Whatever works for you is the way to handle it. It's the way to handle it and I I really appreciate you bringing that up because, as you were talking about it, I was like, oh, like, this is this is. I know I talked about that the never make permanent decisions based on temporary emotions. But, yeah, this is now shifting to like my number one piece of advice for midshipmen as well, and it relates directly to the parents for everything that you just articulated and I would encourage anyone, if they're listening and they haven't seen my article that I've published and written about my advice for incoming plebes- it's exactly that.
Speaker 1:I talk about needing to be proud of your reason and to own your experience. And my reason being is you will see those people who, again, it was their dream to come to the Naval Academy. They've wanted to be a Naval Academy of Enchipment and be a Marine Corps infantry officer or be a Navy pilot or be whatever it may be. They've wanted that their whole life. And so, when they show up, their reason for coming to the academy is because they love it and they wanted to serve their country and they wanted to do these things and they wanted to achieve this military career. And that is awesome. We need those people, we love those people. They set the standard and they push us forward, had that same reason. Right, these are individuals. And I bring it back to the mission of the Naval Academy. Right, and I'll just repeat it because it's been burned into my brain, but the mission of the Naval Academy is to develop, to develop midshipmen morally, mentally and physically, and to be them with the highest ideals of duty, honor and loyalty, in order to graduate leaders who are dedicated to a career of naval service, a potential future development in mind and character, to assume the highest responsibilities of command, citizenship and government at large. That's the mission. The words that I really like to focus on when I tell people about the Naval Academy is exactly this, which is to develop midshipmen, which leads to, in order to graduate, leaders who are dedicated to a career of Naval service. It's not to find and bring in people who are dedicated to a career of Naval service. It's to bring in high character, high performing, highly competent individuals in all arenas, to imbue them with all these ideals and have them ready to become military officers by the time they graduate.
Speaker 1:And so, if that's not your dream, if that hasn't been your purpose, if that's not like your end, all be all. That's not your dream, if that hasn't been your purpose, if that's not like your end, all be all, that's okay. This is a conversation I had with my company officer over plebe summer. He looked at me and I said, grant, because I was struggling, right, because I have people in my company who are like I love this, this is great, this is everything I ever wanted. I have detailers telling me you're not here for the right reason. If you didn't come because you wanted to serve your country, right, and I was like man, like I wanted to play basketball, it's a great education right.
Speaker 1:This is a great school it's free, like there were a lot of reasons that played into my, my reason for coming to the academy, and so I just I feel like this one is a really interesting thing, because I always want to tell people it doesn't matter what your reason for coming to the Academy is or was. You just need to be proud of it. It is your reason. It's not right or wrong, it's just your reason, it just is, it's your experience. How you navigate the Academy. Experience based on that is what matters, and so I just yeah, that's my number one thing. I encourage you to read the article that I wrote, because I had time to actually process my thoughts and put it into. You know actual verbiage. That makes sense, but it's exactly that which is the mission of the academy is to develop midshipmen, to develop these people. There are other commissioning sources. If you look at the mission of OCS, it's quite literally to screen right. We're screening for people who already have these things. That's not the mission of the Naval Academy. The mission of the Naval Academy is development. We are here to develop. We are here to teach, coach and mentor highly capable, highly competent, highly motivated young men and women and get them ready to become leaders who are dedicated to a career in naval service and get them ready to become leaders who are dedicated to a career-enabled service, and so if that's not right now, if that's not the experience they're having as a plebe, that's okay.
Speaker 1:That transition happened for me while I was at the academy. My plebe experience and first year experience completely different. My attitude and mentality and mindset between my plebe year and my first year are completely different, and so I just encourage every parent who may be out there, who may be listening, who may be. Having a hard time like this is part of the process and there's no one reason, there's no exact what it has to be.
Speaker 1:Like you said earlier, these are 4,000 individuals, 4,000 human beings who have come together and there's a baseline foundation and there is a process and there is a machine that's going to develop them and have them ready for exactly what they need to do, because it doesn't have to be who you are. It may just be what you do is being a military officer and so, um, so yeah, just take a deep breath and realize that there are so many experiences that are the right experience, and it is the right experience because it's your experience and as long as you choose to attack it and embrace it, um, and just go with it, you like, you will be successful and it will work, yeah, so I could not agree more grant 100, 100 I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Sometimes I get on. This is my number one topic. I get on a rant sometimes with that one. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:But I think, but that's. I emphasize that to parents all the time, because it's easy to get caught up in the stereotype, right? I mean that this is how your midshipmen should be living their life and this is how you, as a parent, should be living your life, and you know what.
Speaker 1:There is no one size does not fit all, and I think that you can't repeat that enough again with perspective is is the power of simple actions, the power of one person just taking simple actions, and the immense positive impact that can make on someone. And so you know, like, like you're saying, it was one person reaching out and literally just sending a Facebook message to you because they saw your experience and how that dramatically changed your experience, Right. And so I just want to ask one time here and give you an opportunity to shout someone out if you want to who's someone who made a positive impact in your life during your time as a midshipman parent?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'll give a couple names. One, marnie Kelsey, who has had multiple kids as I have go through the academy. She helped me near you know, in the end of my Navy Academy experience but also, as Katie transitioned to the Air Force Academy, super helpful. She also is one of the three folks behind the Academy Travel Network, which I encourage academy families to take advantage of. Mike Cavanaugh, who I mentioned, our sponsor. What a difference a good sponsor can make. Grant, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:Mike was right. My kids have been super lucky. Mike was amazing. He attended all the musical events I couldn't make. He attended all the sprint football games. I couldn't make. No needed poster board, mike was dropping it off at the yard. Just a tremendous asset.
Speaker 2:And as I'm kind of turning the corner here towards the end of my military academy time, susan Weisberg, who's the author of the Chesterman Shipmouse books. I really got to a point when I was working through this latest book where I was really having a lot of doubts. And Susan is another person I've never met, person. She's been on my Herndon playlist, we've spoken on the phone, we've traded emails, but you know she read a couple of things I wrote and it was just very encouraging and I'm not convinced I could have gotten this book across the finish line if it weren't for her. And I will say to your point, I've had a number of parents I had one during Katie's last year, during Katie's third class year, who reached out to me.
Speaker 2:Son was really, really struggling, you know, and just couldn't, couldn't get that one victory. You need that one little win to get you over the hump. And we talked a lot. I gave you know, I talked her through a couple of things and sometimes just listened and at the end you know things worked out really well and we ended up.
Speaker 2:I guess I can say this now we went to one of the All Academies balls in the Cleveland area and some of us did amazing. So really reaching out and just one little thing, a little message. You'd be surprised how that can really help you get to a very difficult spot and really improve your experience immensely.
Speaker 1:Immensely Well, thank you. Thank you for that and as we get ready to wrap up here after an incredible episode one, I just want to say thank you so much again for taking the time to be here. But two is, what would you offer as your last kind of parting advice or thoughts about the Naval Academy journey? As a parent, you know whether you want to tailor that to brand new parents or to experienced parents. I just want to give you an opportunity to kind of, you know, offer your last thoughts on anything that you want to touch on.
Speaker 2:First Grant. Let me say how thrilled I am that Academy Insider's back. It was an incredible resource for me as a plebe parent especially so, and thank you for inviting me. To new parents I would say you know, don't overthink it. Consume as much as you can, but remember your experience is the right experience and this is going to be and the experienced parents will tell you this it's going to go by so fast. You know, we say the time at the academy is broken into thirds Plebe summer, plebe academic year and then the other three years, and so you really have to learn to enjoy it all as you can.
Speaker 2:For the experienced parents I would say you know, pay it forward, find those plebe parents or youngster parents who maybe are having a little bit of a struggle and see if you can't reach out and offer them a little bit of help, because those who've been through that, when you're in that intensity, especially of plebe year at least for me it was so intense and moving so fast as a parent Just to have a couple of folks who could kind of put a hand, a virtual hand, on my shoulder and say it's going to be okay and I could breathe a little bit, say it's okay, it's going to be okay and I could breathe a little bit. So, yeah, that's what I would say, grant, and keep tuning into Academy Insider.
Speaker 1:I think that would be a wise advice for all Perfect Well, carl again, thank you so much for taking the time and joining and sharing your experience with us For anyone who's listening.
Speaker 1:we'll put in the show notes of this episode. We'll put links to everything His blogs, the books, uh, when they come out, uh, flying high and diving deep. Um, whenever that uh releases, we'll be sure to make sure people have access to it as well here on Academy Insider. So, uh, thank you so much to everyone listening. I really appreciate it. If you ever have questions for either of us, feel free to reach out to me and I can always put you in contact with Carl and we can make that happen. So, um, yeah, amazing. Thank you for the time today.
Speaker 1:I hope everyone listening had a great time, uh, enjoying the episode and looking forward to talking to you on the next episode. Thanks, thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Academy Insider Podcast. I really hope you liked it, enjoyed it and learn something during this time. If you did, please feel free to like and subscribe or leave a comment about the episode. We really appreciate to hear your feedback about everything and continue to make Academy Insider an amazing service that guides, serves and supports midshipmen, future midshipmen and their families. Thank you.
