The Academy Insider Podcast - Your Guide to The Naval Academy Experience
#053: From Marine Corps Drill Instructor to the Naval Academy: Learning About Drill with First Sergeant Beth Abbott
What if mastering military drill could transform you into a more disciplined and confident leader? Tune in to our enlightening discussion with First Sergeant Beth Abbott, better known to me as Gunny Abbott, as she shares her inspiring journey from Blanchard, Michigan to becoming the brigade drill master at the United States Naval Academy. You'll hear firsthand experiences of the crucial role military drill plays during Plebe Summer, from the intricacies of formations and parades to the intense drill competitions that shape future Marine and Navy officers. Expect to uncover how these rigorous exercises instill discipline, build confidence, and enhance command skills among troops.
Listen as we recount the pride and responsibility of shaping midshipmen, with Beth providing personal anecdotes and humorous stories, including her unconventional training methods like yelling commands at trees. We explore the historical significance and modern relevance of military drill, revealing its profound impact on leadership development and combat readiness. Beth's journey from a Marine Corps drill instructor to the Naval Academy's drill master is a testament to the dedication and practice required to lead effectively. Her stories of overcoming skepticism and witnessing extraordinary discipline among midshipmen offer valuable insights into the commitment needed for success.
Finally, we delve into the emotional and competitive aspects of military drills, highlighting the significance of the "Eyes Right" salute and the rigorous training involved in Plebe Summer Drill. Beth shares the challenges of preparing plebes for parades and drill competitions, emphasizing the collaborative efforts needed to achieve precision and excellence. This episode is a treasure trove of inspiring stories, practical advice, and heartfelt gratitude, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of military drill's enduring importance and the leadership lessons it imparts. Don't miss out on this opportunity to gain practical knowledge and inspiration from one of the best in the field.
The mission of Academy Insider is to guide, serve, and support Midshipmen, future Midshipmen, and their families.
Grant Vermeer your host is the person who started it all. He is the founder of Academy Insider and the host of The Academy Insider podcast and the USNA Property Network Podcast. He was a recruited athlete which brought him to Annapolis where he was a four year member of the varsity basketball team. He was a cyber operations major and commissioned into the Cryptologic Warfare Community. He was stationed at Fort Meade and supported the Subsurface Direct Support mission.
He separated from the Navy in 2023 and now owns The Vermeer Group, a boutique residential real estate company that specializes in serving the United States Naval Academy community PCSing to California & Texas.
We are here to be your guide through the USNA experience.
Connect with Grant on Linkedin
Academy Insider Website
Academy Insider Facebook Page
If you are interested in sponsoring the podcast, have an idea, question or topic you would like to see covered, reach out: podcast@academyinsider.com.
What if mastering military drill could transform you into a more disciplined and confident leader? Tune in to our enlightening discussion with First Sergeant Beth Abbott, better known to me as Gunny Abbott, as she shares her inspiring journey from Blanchard, Michigan to becoming the brigade drill master at the United States Naval Academy. You'll hear firsthand experiences of the crucial role military drill plays during Plebe Summer, from the intricacies of formations and parades to the intense drill competitions that shape future Marine and Navy officers. Expect to uncover how these rigorous exercises instill discipline, build confidence, and enhance command skills among troops.
Listen as we recount the pride and responsibility of shaping midshipmen, with Beth providing personal anecdotes and humorous stories, including her unconventional training methods like yelling commands at trees. We explore the historical significance and modern relevance of military drill, revealing its profound impact on leadership development and combat readiness. Beth's journey from a Marine Corps drill instructor to the Naval Academy's drill master is a testament to the dedication and practice required to lead effectively. Her stories of overcoming skepticism and witnessing extraordinary discipline among midshipmen offer valuable insights into the commitment needed for success.
Finally, we delve into the emotional and competitive aspects of military drills, highlighting the significance of the "Eyes Right" salute and the rigorous training involved in Plebe Summer Drill. Beth shares the challenges of preparing plebes for parades and drill competitions, emphasizing the collaborative efforts needed to achieve precision and excellence. This episode is a treasure trove of inspiring stories, practical advice, and heartfelt gratitude, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of military drill's enduring importance and the leadership lessons it imparts. Don't miss out on this opportunity to gain practical knowledge and inspiration from one of the best in the field.
The mission of Academy Insider is to guide, serve, and support Midshipmen, future Midshipmen, and their families.
Grant Vermeer your host is the person who started it all. He is the founder of Academy Insider and the host of The Academy Insider podcast and the USNA Property Network Podcast. He was a recruited athlete which brought him to Annapolis where he was a four year member of the varsity basketball team. He was a cyber operations major and commissioned into the Cryptologic Warfare Community. He was stationed at Fort Meade and supported the Subsurface Direct Support mission.
He separated from the Navy in 2023 and now owns The Vermeer Group, a boutique residential real estate company that specializes in serving the United States Naval Academy community PCSing to California & Texas.
We are here to be your guide through the USNA experience.
Connect with Grant on Linkedin
Academy Insider Website
Academy Insider Facebook Page
If you are interested in sponsoring the podcast, have an idea, question or topic you would like to see covered, reach out: podcast@academyinsider.com.
Welcome to Season 2 of the Academy Insider Podcast. Academy Insider is a 501c3 nonprofit organization that serves midshipmen, future midshipmen and their families. At its core, this podcast is designed to bring together a community of Naval Academy graduates and those affiliated with the United States Naval Academy in order to tell stories and provide a little bit of insight into what life at the Naval Academy is really like. I hope you enjoy it. Thank you so much for listening and reach out if you ever have any questions. The Academy Insider Podcast is sponsored by the Vermeer Group, a residential real estate company that serves the United States Naval Academy community and other select clientele in both California and Texas. If I can ever answer a real estate related question for you or connect you with a trusted Academy affiliated agent in the market which you're in, please reach out to me directly at grantatthevermeergroupcom. You can also reach out to me on my LinkedIn page, grant Vermeer, and I'd be happy to respond to you there. Thank you so much, and now let's get back to the episode. Hey everyone, and welcome back to the Academy Insider Podcast.
Speaker 1:In today's episode, I'm joined by a really good friend of mine and a mentor from my time at the Academy, and that's First Sergeant Beth Abbott. Now I know her a little bit better as Gunny Abbott because when I was a midshipman she was still a gunnery sergeant in the Marine Corps. She was the brigade drill master, so she was in charge of all things drill. And so when we talk about drill, we're talking about formations, we're talking about parades, we're talking about march on and drill competitions that happen during plebe summer, and that's the focus of today's episode. We talk all about drill, what the purpose of drill is, what drill even is at large. For anyone who may have no idea what I'm talking about, when I say drill, we're going to talk about what it is, what the purpose of it is and how it manifests itself during plebe summer. So, as you're going through and you're getting ready to prepare for plebe summer or what to expect, or your parents is trying to understand what your son or daughter is going through, this is going to be a deep dive into all about military drill during a military indoctrination period, and I think you're really going to get a kick out of it. We share a lot of stories during my time going through my relationship with Beth and then also, on top of that, the relationship we had while I was getting ready to be the regimental commander of Plebe Summer, because there's a lot of drill related things I had to prepare for, so we spent a lot of time together. She had me yelling out at trees and stuff. I don't know what the Marine Corps got these people doing, but I was out there yelling at trees and so we share some fun stories in my preparation for being a detailer in Plebe Summer.
Speaker 1:If you enjoy the episode, please share it with someone who you think may also enjoy it. And then if you could leave a review on Apple Podcasts, rate it, leave a comment. That would be tremendously helpful for me and the Academy Insider mission, so I'd really appreciate it. Thank you so much. If you have any questions, let me know. Otherwise, I hope you enjoyed the episode. All right, hey everyone, and welcome back to the Academy Insider Podcast. Today I'm joined by First Sergeant Abbott. Beth, it feels weird being a civilian now, so I'm going to call you Beth, even though it feels weird. So I'm sorry about that. But if you don't mind, just telling us a little bit about yourself where you're from, how you ended up in the Marine Corps and then how the Marine Corps brought you to the Naval Academy, and then what you did at the Naval Academy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. First, it feels weird for me to call you Grant, because I call you sir, but it's so good to see your face. I'm from Blanchard, michigan. I'm 40 years old. I'm married, with two kids of my own and a stepson who is a Marine right now on Camp Lejeune. I joined the Marine Corps because my best friend did. I went to college for a year. It wasn't for me. She joined, she came back, I signed up. I was only supposed to do four years and here I am, almost 21 years later. It's been an amazing ride.
Speaker 2:I will tell you that, um, once in a lifetime, and how I ended up in the Naval Academy. First and foremost, I didn't even know what the Naval Academy was. I did not want to go to the Naval Academy. I didn't know anything about it. Now, general Shea, two-star General Shea, roberta Shea um, she was my battalion commander in 2008 on the drill field when I was a drill instructor. And, uh, I had just gotten to Fort Leonard, missouri, to be an instructor at my MOS school for motor transportation a truck driver and I'm super pumped to be down there. And, like five months later, I get an email like hey, have you ever thought about coming to the Naval Academy, I was like, absolutely not. What is this? No hard pass, right. And then I'm thinking well man, there's got to be a reason why she's reaching out to me and that's assistant Marine officer, instructor duty, very high-vis duty for enlisted Marines, to go on. And I knew one of my best friends was up there now for Sergeant Nadia Sensing and she had 21st Company.
Speaker 2:And I'm thinking in my head man, there's a reason why she's reaching out to me well, all in all, my orders were cut short down at um instructor duty down there at fort leonard, missouri. I ended up being there for two years and moved straight up to the naval academy in 2015 um april, march, april time frame of 2015 and I and I stayed there until 2018 and I ended up being the brigade drill master and six company senior enlisted leader. I I will tell you, grant and everyone on watching this hands down the second most rewarding thing I ever did in my life. To be a part of the transformation from a young man or a young woman to understand the skills of the military aspect and just life in general and help them into molding and shaping them into officers to serve in the Naval forces is phenomenal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I appreciate you saying that.
Speaker 1:The reason I asked you to be on this with me is because of the impact you had on me specifically, right, and so I just want to give a genuine thank you to you from me and all of my classmates and all the people at the Naval Academy who you just made an extremely positive impact on all of our lives and our development.
Speaker 1:Like you're saying, I think the military in general, but especially, again, the service academy path for a lot of people is the most expedited route to growing up Right. Your development from turning from a high school kid a an adult happens really quickly through the military, and it happens because of the, the pressure of the place, but also the investment of all of the individuals and staff that are there to teach you, coach you, mentor you, push you and help you develop Right. And so I appreciate you coming on to do this and I appreciate you for everything you did for me, and we'll kind of get into some of these stories of how we interacted and how we crossed paths in the academy, but before we do that, you mentioned that you were the brigade drill master. Was that part of your orders when you got orders to the Naval Academy. Did you know you were going to be the brigade drill master? Or was like, hey, I'm going to be a senior enlisted leader?
Speaker 2:And you were going to be the brigade drill master or was like, hey, I'm going to be a senior enlisted leader, and then I kind of got this collateral as the brigade drill master. Yeah, no, I knew I was going to get it and I think that's a reason why general Shea pulled me up there. Then Colonel Shea, the deputy comrade, pulled me up there. Um, in fact, I I took that gig and I was all about it, but I needed something more, because I have a lot of energy, I need more to do and I knew I could take on the role of a senior enlisted leader in a company. So I was able to talk my way into that and manage both of them, I think, fairly well, and I loved every second of it. I mean exhausting, long hours, but totally worth it.
Speaker 2:The impact and I think you brought up a good point of, maybe, how I impacted you guys and all that, which is great, right, there's thousands of you throughout the Navy and the Marine Corps now that like are my brothers and sisters and they check on me every day, like I run into them everywhere it's phenomenal. But the impact that you guys had on me, um, I don't think I'll ever be able to express on on how heartfelt it was. You guys changed me Like it's not just like me helping, you guys Like we were a team and like we just jived and it just worked and I loved every second of it.
Speaker 1:I love it. And how'd you, how'd you get into being a drill instructor in the first place? Like you kind of mentioned, that was your, your pathway up and through. How'd you end up becoming a drill instructor? Is that something you sought out or are you like it just happened and then you just loved it?
Speaker 2:yeah, well, I was on my. I just came back from my third deployment, second combat deployment, and I had re-enlisted and my mentor then was gunnery sergeant troy bell. He's now long retired, um, him and his wife. His wife was a sergeant major, he was a first sergeant when he retired. He lives up in delaware and um, I remember he's him saying to me like why don't you just try four more years?
Speaker 2:Now, mind you, we're in on a deployment in Iraq in combat and I'm like there's no way I'm doing four years. I was a sergeant, I'm getting out, that's it. And and he was so moto, and he's someone I always looked up to and wanted to be like and I was like you know what, why not give it a shot? So back then you could reenlist and get an incentive and basically go wherever you know within reasons you wanted to go. So I said, screw it, I'll reenlist. Um, and I reenlisted with orders to the drill field.
Speaker 2:So I came back from that deployment, went straight to start in school, um, did some more training and then shipped right to Paris Island, south Carolina.
Speaker 2:And I will tell you this Um, I was 22 years old, I just got my first hash mark for service in the Marine Corps and I had no clue what I was doing, but I remember what my drone structures did and instilled in me and once it clicks, and then you understand, you're part of the process to make United States Marines, be part of a team that these these now men and women are going to go in to, to harm's way and fight for our country. There's no greater feeling than that and that's the same feeling I got at the naval academy for you guys, because the moment you graduated, some of you guys went straight to combat on a ship or on land or wherever you know, and and still to this day some didn't come home. I mean it's. I don't think we understand when we're into it and and you guys as students, when you're there and then young recruits at the depot, they don't understand like man when you graduate. This is life, this is serious, like you can deploy at any moment.
Speaker 2:And there's a great feeling of sense of pride and passion in me to be part of that process 100, 100.
Speaker 1:I, you know it's fast how, or it's crazy how fast reality hits you in that perspective. Um, you know, I guess you kind of assume when you graduate, oh, I'm gonna go through the schooling pipeline, I'm gonna get training out in the fleet. For my specific job, like you're saying, I was on deployment about seven months after graduation. I was on deployment and like out and and and doing the thing right and it was, uh, it's crazy how fast it hits you. And again, this is just the reality of the Naval Academy experience and the military experience in general. It's like we're gonna train you but then you have to go out and execute and a lot of it's just gonna, a lot of the learning is gonna happen while you're out there and doing it. But it's crazy.
Speaker 1:It's crazy and I think part of the foundation of a lot of the baseline building of all of what we're doing at these military institutions and again we'll focus this one a little bit on the Naval Academy here is this idea of drill, and so kind of the big reason I wanted to bring you on today is, again, was your role as the brigade drill master. A person listening, a parent, a grandparent, no military background, has no idea about really anything military and especially drill. Do you mind telling them about what drill is, what drill is and what the purpose of drill is in the military indoctrination process?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I'll start off by saying something sort of funny at first, like no one really likes drill, right? I mean, I didn't. I didn't like it as a recruit, I didn't like it as a drill instructor.
Speaker 2:But I will tell you what so much discipline and confidence and command and demand comes from drill. If you think about years ago I'm talking years and years 1700s, 1600s, 1800s and how you know, men formed in a line which is drill and discipline to defeat the enemy. We still do that to this day. It's just a little bit different, right? I'll start off by telling you the five purposes of drill and why every branch it's a little bit different. Every branch has its own flavor, but why we do it right. So I'm going to read off my paper right now.
Speaker 2:So the five purposes of close order drill number one is to move a unit from point A to point B in a disciplined manner. Right, we don't just want people to gaggle around and look all undisciplined. If we're in the military, we got to be disciplined. You know what I mean, right? And two, to provide simple formations from which combat formations may be readily assumed. That one's huge and I don't think a lot of parents understand that to this day. Like if we instill drill at a young age to an officer enlisted, those movements coincide with combat. Or on a ship or on land, in the air. We use formations in the air for pilots, like it all boils down and it's basic drill is what it is.
Speaker 2:Number three to teach discipline by instilling habits of precision and automatic response to orders. Now, this right here is more so the instant willing obedience to all orders right. The definition of what discipline is, respect for authority, self-reliance and teamwork right, and I think, in order to sort of take that civilian-ish persona off, a man or a woman, a young man or a young woman, whether that be at the Naval Academy or in at the depot somewhere, that's what we do and that's sort of how we remove. Hey, let's get rid of the civilian side of Beth Abbott and let's put her in the Marine Corps side of let's just learn her and grow her, and that's sort of what it is right.
Speaker 2:And number four to increase confidence in junior officers and non-commissioned officers through the exercise of command, by giving of proper commands and by the control of drilling troops. Right, and this is what I talk about, about that confidence of command and demand. Right, you don't have to know everything, but if you can call your unit to attention, command them as a leader and move them from point A to point B, you're well ahead of most people that you know just don't have the confidence to even speak in front of young men and women. And number five it gives troops an opportunity to handle individual weapons and instill confidence right. So, just like the plebes, every time they do drill they're assigned a rifle right. Every time they're at the recruit depot, I mean, they're assigned a rifle. Anywhere you go OCS, tbs you're assigned a rifle and it's your battle buddy for life because it will be your battle buddy in combat Right. And just getting familiar with that and knowing the ins and outs of it and instilling that confidence in you and just understanding about that.
Speaker 2:And I think at the Naval Academy we just put a different little spin and a different flavor on it to get the midshipmen to buy in on it 100%.
Speaker 1:You know, what's so funny to this day is you're talking about building confidence and having a structured organization and discipline. I remember one of the first things you said to me. So our main connection here, especially on the drill front, is I was getting ready to be the regimental commander of Plebe Summer for the incoming class. There are a lot of times where I was going to have to be presenting in front of crowds at formations, yelling, presenting these commands, using the sword manual, all the above. So so beth and I worked together.
Speaker 1:We worked together, and I remember the first thing you said to me is you were like, uh, hey, sir, you walk with too much swag and that's not a compliment. And I was just like what are you like? What are much swag, and that's not a compliment. And I was just like what are you talking about? She's like you're just so loose. You're just like kind of like flowing, like going with the flow. She's like I need you to tighten up right now, right now. And I was like, oh, yeah, all right, yeah, no, like you got it, you got it.
Speaker 1:And so that is the again like those are the five purposes of drill that we're talking about, and I do legitimately believe, especially that fourth one about you know, junior officers and like getting that experience of giving commands and having that command authority and that command presence. That was a huge development in just my own personal life was being in that regimental commander position and having to give orders and give commands and do it to 1200 people out there in front of everyone watching, watching parades, watching the new meal formation, etc. Right, and so there's a big, big foundation there which is really interesting. And you mentioned kind of a little bit of the history of drill, like going all the way back. Is there a specific history? Do you know that they've kind of associated, like hey, at this point in time, like our ceremonial drill that we do in the United States military today can be traced back to a certain period and how has it developed over time?
Speaker 2:I mean I don't know that off the top of my head I should have done that research. But I will tell you this A great starting point I would believe is from when the Marine Corps was founded in 1775 and what we did in the Revolutionary War and the Civil War and then on up. And I think where I always compare where our drill is the best is Marine Barracks Washington 8th, and I compare where our drill is the best is Marine Barracks Washington 8th and I. And talk about drill and precision like that is them, I mean, and that's for looks and for show now, but back then it wasn't, it was for combat. And not to say that obviously the Naval Academy doesn't, we don't do that and we don't have to do that. But man, the foundation that the Naval Academy sets, with whatever drill master and senior enlisted leaders, navy or Marine Corps that are there, that buys into the importance of it.
Speaker 2:I think it really matters and I would say from my time I'm sort of going around in a circle here I think from my time when I was there, I was thankful to have SELs and company officers of all grade, all, all rank, buy into drill, even though they didn't. They might not have liked it. You know, maybe I didn't like coming in at you know five 30 in the morning and doing plebe summer drill at 6am, like who wants to do that?
Speaker 2:Um but I knew I could motivate those plebes and make them happy and motivate them. Then maybe their day is set, you know, for the next event, right, it's like. It's like a midshipman going to math class. Do they really like math? Probably not, but guess what I got to get it in order to complete my matrix, to graduate. Right, like, just put your effort and focus into what you're doing. Like I say, be where you are, 100%. There was times grant and you guys probably seen it on my face, maybe you didn't, maybe I hit it. Well, I mean, I'd leave my house every morning at 4.15 just to make it to the Naval Academy on time, because I lived in Alexandria, virginia. But the pride in me to go there to know if I impacted one midshipman once a day one, and it doesn't have to be about drill, it could be about anything.
Speaker 2:Then I did my job as a leader. That's what kept me coming back for more and fiending it. And then, for some reason, me and the brigade just clicked when I started this whole drill master thing. And once I understood the buy-in and how to get to a midshipman man, the connection was phenomenal and I think I was happy. I was blessed of the performance that the midshipmen gave. Uh, not just me, not just the discipline they put forth, but the public. The public loved it, loved it, loved coming into parades, couldn't wait for a football march on. I mean, publicity was unreal.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know and that's a testament to you guys and and the and the mids that were there.
Speaker 1:Well, 100%, and I appreciate you giving us a little bit of the credit. It's an infectious positivity that you brought to it right Again, and it just speaks to leadership in general, and I think a big thing about military leadership and I'd be sure I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on it. But, again, a lot of military leadership is getting people to buy into doing things that they don't want to do, that they don't have any like proactive desire to do, if it weren't for the fact that we have to do it as a unit or as an organization or as an entity or whatever the case is Right. And so, um, again, you brought.
Speaker 1:You brought a certain level of positivity and an infectious personality that's just like made it worth it right, just made it. We're like, no, hey, gunny's here and, and we're gonna do it like gunny's habits here, and we're like this is, this is what it's gonna be, and so, um, I really appreciate that and you would. You had mentioned that you had some, you know, company officers and senior enlisted leaders helping you out as well. Did you have a midshipman staff as well, like any midshipman brigade, drill master or type of people that you use as well to kind of help educate the brigade of midshipmen again to get ready as detailers where they were going to be teaching drill.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. There was, you know, my counterpart to me, you know, the midshipman drill officer, and then each regiment had the regimental drill officer, all the way down to the companies and the platoons and the squads, like it was phenomenal. And and getting that cadre to buy off on drilling most of them volunteered for that position because they liked drill made my life way easier, because then you know, it's not just me, you know, just speaking to thousands of midshipmen trying to get them to buy off on this thing that most of them do not like, we can sort of help each other out and that staff, that drill staff, really helped me out, you know. And then, when it comes to plebe, summer and the detailers, I mean that's, those positions are phenomenal in itself, not just, you know, for the leadership role, but for the development, for the personal professional development, um, but they have no choice but to do drill.
Speaker 1:There's no getting around it, you know, yep, and did you have uh? Was there? Was there ever a training pipeline for once? Once the uh midshipman found out they were going to be detailers like hey, I'm going to be a platoon commander for this plebe summer Was there a plebe summer drill training period that you went through, or kind of? How was that handled for the incoming detailers?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I can't remember the exact verbiage of what it was, but I will tell you this, I think because of the bond and the relationship myself and the brigade had, whoever were the incoming detailers, I mean, they sought me out because they cared about what they you know, not in a conceited way, what they looked like, how they wanted to be, who they wanted to be, you know, the professionalism, the discipline they wanted to be, that role model that those plebes looked up to, knowing that they're still learning, um, but knowing that in a year they're going out to the fleet and they're actually going to do the real thing, um, and yeah, there was the whole transition period of how we'd get, how we would um train the detailers to make sure they are ready to for the incoming incoming, you know, plebe summer. And it was, it was, that was, for me, that was probably the funnest moment, that was the funnest part.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Was that fun for me too. I don't know if you remember that. So you talk about, kind of in that similar vein to that, that first train that we had. So when I found and I was like I need help, like I don't know what I'm doing, I don't know what I'm doing and like you're saying, again there's going to be I wanted to take my job very seriously and I wanted to take my role very seriously and I knew that, like during parades, during formations, I was going to be in front of potentially thousands of people like watching all of this happen. Right, and I wanted to be sharp.
Speaker 1:And I remember the first thing you did is you had me because again, a big piece of that when you're commanding a unit of 1200 plebes and another 250 detailers, it's like you're covering a lot of space. You're gonna have to give commands to 1500 people over a loud space. In this drill ceremony parade, I remember you had me yelling at trees in Smoke Park. You're like, all right, well, we're going to work on how you actually yell and give commands. And you're like, right now you're screaming out of your throat and you sound like a dying crow. It was like I need you to go into your diaphragm and start actually giving these commands.
Speaker 1:And I just think it was so cool but also a funny story to go back and remember all my time and be like I was standing out there, literally, like you're saying, at like 6 30 in the morning, standing in smoke park, literally screaming, yelling at trees, giving giving commands to trees. But yeah, that's what you have to do. Like this we have to do in order to be ready to go for again actually leading a formation or leading a parade or leading whatever it is, and it's uh, it, just, it, just it takes, and it just takes work.
Speaker 2:It just takes a little practice. I think that's very important. Yeah, I mean that's how I learned, that's how we learned. I mean not all the time, but at drone searcher school we yell at trees, we yell at anything, and I think it's not just to make our diaphragm better and make us louder. There's a humility piece to it, Meaning be confident when you're right and be confident when you're wrong. It doesn't matter what you're commanding and demanding. If you're confident, they will move with precision every time, right Like it is. It's phenomenal, the discipline aspect of it, and I want to share a story real quick. I can't remember if it. I think it was a class of 19. It might've been 18.
Speaker 2:I remember, um Cleve Summer starting, and so we're, you know, we're started Cleve Summer, the bootcamp, if, if, if, you will, a portion of it. And I remember, and I'll leave his name out, a senior officer. Well, first it was Colonel Shea saying you know, gunny, why don't you teach fixed bayonet and I'm like fixed bayonet to not just the plebes but to like 3000 midshipmen? No way, like, how am I going to do that?
Speaker 2:I'm not eight and I Then I'm thinking in my head, I'm thinking you're a bad habit, you can teach this, you can figure it out. And she's like she goes why don't you do that? And then I know, when you know General Shea speaks to me, I'm like, all right, I got this, I'm going to do it, Right, Like so I'm thinking, man, how am I going to do this? And then there was another senior officer that said I mean, he was disgusted. He's like you're never going to be able to do that, Never. I got to.
Speaker 1:Watch this.
Speaker 2:So I remember bringing the plebs into T-Court. It was one evening, the sun was setting, it was a perfect evening, it was amazing. And I'm standing up on the steps and the plebs are below me with all their SELs and company officers behind them and I'm teaching them what I made up the ditties to be. You know, a fixed bayonet. And I still remember to this day. I won't go through it, but I remember watching video after video after video, getting the help from my drill officers saying can we do this? They're like, yeah, we can do this, All right. All right, here's how I'm going to do it. You know, I'm going to say the ditties, I'm going to do it. Does this look right? It didn't look like eighth and I, but it looked. It looked pretty good. And then the and then the plebs are thinking there's no way I can do this Right.
Speaker 2:So we're in T court and we're going back and forth and we're we're doing it with the bayonets and I keep saying don't put your rifle and your bayonet underneath your face. It's got to go to the side Like there's a me. Thank god he's okay, this plebe we're going through fixed bayonet. This plebe puts his bayonet through his cheek right and he has so much discipline and pride looking at me and he's like um garth, I just I'm like uh, and in the moment I'm like I don't care, go see your senior enlisted leader, like go to the back. This kid was so disciplined. He like went to attention, said yes, sorry, sir, Blood gushing from his face, pulls the bayonet from his face and in that moment I got chills talking about it. It motivated the crap out of me. Motivated the crap out of me. But then the police all seen it and they got so excited of me.
Speaker 2:But then the plebs all seen it and they got so excited and I was like that's how it's done and I made a. I made a training lesson out of that, and it was so, moto. But guess what we got right that night?
Speaker 1:we got fixed in that right that night. It was the coolest thing ever yeah, right, and then I remember we have one plebs, that's it there we go right.
Speaker 2:It's sad but he's probably fine now, maybe a little bit of scar, he um. But I remember the plebes getting introduced to the brigade on their first parade when the when everyone comes back for school and we did fix bayonet and and in the stands the brigade is cheering and they're like, oh my god, what is this? Is this? And how important it was to Plebes to show the brigade that they could do that. It was the coolest thing ever. And then I had the challenge of teaching the entire brigade fixed bayonet. That was rough but we got it.
Speaker 1:That's a whole nother level because for anyone who's listening, as you will soon discover, you have max level buy-in during plebe summer, right like you will get max level buy-in during plebe summer when you get to the, when you get to the school year and you got a second class or a youngster, that getting buy-ins just a little bit harder. It's just a little bit harder at times, especially for something like that so, uh, yeah, I'm sure that was quite the challenge. It's quite the challenge to get it ready.
Speaker 2:Good, um, amazing. Well, what I will tell you, though, is that I think something you touched sorry, something you touched on was, like you know, and for anyone, for the parents that are listening to like and this goes human being to human being right, it's one thing to be motivated you can motivate anyone, and they'll probably follow you or get excited, and blah, blah, blah but if you truly inspire them to want to do something that they didn't think they could do or didn't want to do, and then they do it, and you see the pride and the confidence in themselves, like that's all it's about, and that's what I tried to do every day, and if it's infectious, if you get through to one, you can get through to many, and I think that's why the buy-in was there, like the mids were phenomenal, like it was great.
Speaker 1:I love that. So so many parallels again, I think this is what I want to touch on as we transition it back to, like, the focus of drill during plebe summer. Um, is there so many parallels? There's so many parallels to life and just general leadership that can be taught through the foundations of drill and the impact that it has. Right, as we talk about the purposes of drill, you know it parallels to so many different things and so, as a result, every, basically every evening during plebe summer, there is a drill period, right? So after the evening meal, you get ready to go out to the drill field where you have like an hour and a half for dedicated drill instruction, education and practice. And so I just wanted to pick your brain and see, when it came to Plebe Summer, what were your goals in vision for those instruction periods and how are you communicating to the detail staff? Of like, we need to practice X, Y or Z or kind of. How structured or formatted was it, versus letting the detailers kind of teach it on their own?
Speaker 2:Yeah, great question. I think you know. First and foremost, wardenfield is like historical. I mean, so many men and women, heroes have walked on that field and I just I get chills every time I drive past it or walk on it, still to this day. So it just Warden Field is phenomenal. So going out there after like no one wants to do drill after you eat evening chow, you're tired, you're worn down, but we go out there until the sun goes down, and something I think I always wanted to instill in the detailers and to instill in myself as well as can we learn at least one thing?
Speaker 2:you know, I'd always give them a handful like three or four things, like focus on these three or four things for an hour and a half. Hit it and move on, hit it and move on. But in the, in the same sense, the detailers are working on their command and demand their command presence as well. So they're working, but teaching the plebes, you know, can we teach them at least one thing every drill period? That's something new, that it'll instill confidence and they'll be like oh, I learned something new today. I would say, for the most part, we accomplished that almost every drill period, you know, and once we got all those pockets of, I'm going to teach X, y and Z today, and a little bit of this today and this. And then when I thought, well, man, I'd get the input of my drill officers, the staff, and then I'd get the input of the senior enlisted leaders and the plebe summer officers and all that, and I'd say, hey, are we ready? Are we, you know, are we ready to bring them all together and teach them the sequence of a parade. Because because if they know the movements, the simple little movements of the rifle, and then right face, left face and marching, the simple little movements of the rifle, and then right face, left face and marching, you know, and eyes right, we can do anything. All they have to do is follow in suit, you know, and, and once we sort of put it all together and we're like, all right, this is what it looks like and I can command and demand from my microphone. Really the, the detailers, the plebs, summer details, did it all. I just said stop or go or get back or let's do it again, and you guys had it. I mean, that's the best part if I could train you guys to understand the importance of that, the little stuff that we, you know, broke out in our little groups on the warden field, and then we put it together.
Speaker 2:That's the masterpiece, right there yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I even you hear here here you say get back it. Just it made me like laugh and just bring back so many memories because like during plebe summer, like you're saying, you have that microphone right and I remember being a plebe in the same thing and it was just like you know, they would give a command, you do a movement, like they'd be something of like, for example, like the you know, uh, manual of arms or something like that. We we're kind of moving the rifle around and I just remember, I just hear I forget who the gunny was, who was the brigade drill master before you? Do you remember who you took over for?
Speaker 2:Gosh, I can see his face, I can't say his name.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can't remember his name for the life of me either, but he was so funny, get him out, get him out. Get him out his name for the life of me either, but he was he was so he'd be.
Speaker 1:Get it back, get back, get back right now and I just it's just like you hear all 1200 pleads, just go, I gotta recharge it like, put it back. And like it's just, if you ever drive past warden field during plebe summer in the evening, you will see just a whole like 1200 pleads just yelling some type of response and just like I, I gunnery sergeant, like those were uh, some some words that just stick to my brain here to this day. Um, and as we talk about some of the move, some of the movements that they're, that they're practicing again, we're not going to go in depth about like drill here, but some of the things that we're working on during that plebe summer drill period, like you mentioned, are marching movements, um, the actual, like you said eyes right. Do you mind explaining very briefly what we, when you say eyes right, like what are? What are people expecting to see from plebes in that um, in that command?
Speaker 2:yeah, I'm probably gonna butcher this, but I'll, but I'll. First we'll talk about marching manual.
Speaker 2:So yeah, if I'm right with all this um, you know, we start at right shoulder arms, from right to left, left to port, port to right, um, and, and when we do eyes right, we ended up in and I think I said that backwards we ended up in our right shoulder arms.
Speaker 2:So when we do eyes right, um, it's basically the troops saying basically, in a sense saying to the commander, or saying to the reviewing officer, the man or woman that's going to lead them into combat for lack of better terms in history hey, we're ready to go, look at us, we're ready to go and we're going to salute you when we march by. So they're all in formation, they march by, they do an eyes right, they've got the rifles. They're saying, hey, we're ready to go, and the detailer in the front is commanding them and all of this. And when we're sort of giving them a salute, and he's saying to that reviewing officer hey, we're ready to go, right, and that's what the plebes are, whatever rank they are at the time, or the midshipmen are saying when they're going, it's very. I mean, it gives me chills. Saying that as much as you know, drill sometimes frustrates me. It is you boil it back down to history and it's, it's huge. It's saying all right, we're ready to go, look at us, look what we've been trained and taught to do.
Speaker 2:We're ready to follow you into combat period, and that's what it's all about.
Speaker 1:I love it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what it's all about.
Speaker 1:That's what it's all about. I love it, yeah, and so, yeah, so that's kind of the. That's the premise of Plebe Summer Drill, right Is, during that drill period you're going through and you're practicing all of the individual movements, from marching movements to the actual rifle movements, to Eyes Right, which is the salute to the reviewing party. You're going through all those things right, which is the salute to the reviewing party. You're going through all those things. So by the end of not even by the end of the summer, but throughout the summer, you're able to execute a formal parade right, and we'll actually do a follow-on episode and follow-on content about the formal parade and, when you come to watch it, what you're actually looking at and what it means. But that's what's going on during that evening show practice.
Speaker 1:And, like Beth was saying, it's really hard because I think you really need to, like you're saying, take away one thing to focus on, because I just remember being a plebe during that plebe drill period. Like you're saying, it's after evening chow, the Annapolis sunset's there, it's still hot. You hear the cicadas just buzzing and chirping in the background. No-transcript to be on one of those planes right now. Just let me like, let me just go home for for a minute, like that'd be sweet.
Speaker 1:So, uh, it's tough. It's tough to keep attention during those drill periods at times because people are just exhausted and it's just kind of like that end of day wind down. But that is, that is the purpose. That's, the purpose of that drill period at the end of the day is to get people ready for those, for those formal parades, for those formal parades and so um. The last thing that I want to touch on in terms of plebe summer drill is that there's actually a drill competition. Each platoon competes in a drill competition towards the end of plebe summer. You mind talking about or sharing some stories of things that you remember from your time as the brigade drill master and what the purpose of the competition was, or how it was structured, organized and what people did in that competition?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. It was my way to evaluate the plebs, what the plebs have learned, whether that be from me or, more specifically, from their detailer, and it was a way for me to evaluate, because they get graded as well. The platoon commander gets graded right and then we rack and stack them. And this is the same thing at recruit depot west, recruit depot east and ocs, and they don't do it at tbs, but ocs, right, um, it's always a competition who can drill the best? What instructor's the best? Meaning, what platoon commander? For this, um, for what we're talking about at the naval academy, which platoon commander is the best? Meaning, who can command it in demand? Who learned drill the most, who can get their plebs to do precision and discipline, rifle manual and movements.
Speaker 2:So yeah, we had a huge competition. It was usually on a Saturday and Sunday. It started at like eight in the morning I think, and ran until about 5 pm and they were long days but it was platoon after platoon after platoon and I loved every second of it and it was just so much fun because it was. It was almost like the mom heart in me or the big sister heart in me saying you know the leader in me, saying man, he or she learned something, check that out. And I get to watch them, and now I'm grading them too. He or she learned something.
Speaker 1:check that out and I get to watch them.
Speaker 2:And now I'm grading them too. Or I look at that, that plebe that didn't know his or her left from the right, and they're like I've never touched a gun in my life and I can't do this, and I can't, I can't, I can't. And then the tears and this, all this frustration, to look at that young man or woman and say, man, look what you just did, you know. Or your platoon, one Right, and then, and then, whatever prize we gave them, they got something. I can't remember what it was, but it's just. And amongst the detailers, I think, as much as they, as a competition as it is to, you know, to talk crap, for lack of better words for the, for the plebs in their, in their platoons, it's more so the detailers, um, that is a is a crap talking, um, you know, and I always got them together and I got, you know, the top three.
Speaker 2:I think I got the top three gifts out of my own pocket just because it was great. And then we, and then we probably shared a beverage or something together, like it was, it was phenomenal, like the competition was great. But the buy-in if you get the buy-in and you inspire them to compete, most of us, by human nature, are competitive. That's what we want to do. But if you sell it that way, man, they buy off on it and it's great 1000%.
Speaker 1:It's something I was talking with my good friend, christian Blanchard. He was the platoon commander, 26th platoon as our time of detailers, the platoon commander 26, uh, platoon as our time of detailers. And he was just recollecting like again, he was so motivated to be like the like have the best drill, uh, platoon, right, like that was. That was it. And, like you're saying, it turned into a competition, it turned into an inspiration and it turned into a real, almost like tangible leadership challenge. Cause I think this is a really interesting distinction from a lot of the stuff that goes on during Plebe.
Speaker 1:Summer is, again, you do a lot of the same stuff over and over again in the military bootcamp and indoctrination process and you can see progression, but it's like, how do we really quantify what's happened? Whereas in this drill competition, for the first time, like under your leadership, under your command, you have a tangible result of like something that you are trying to execute at an extremely high level and you're competing against all of the other platoons in a way that will be evaluated Right. And so I think it's a really cool concept for pride that the plebs have, but also the pride of the detailers have to really do well and to execute and have that, like you're saying that, that true sense of competition amidst this military indoctrination process.
Speaker 2:All right, that's, uh, it's a cool aspect absolutely yeah, and that's what it's about and it it was fun. I will tell you what. The competition at the end phenomenal, because the senior enlisted leaders come out to watch the company officers come out to watch. You know, some of the mids that are on the yard come out to watch from the brigade, Like it's just fun and it's in Darnard Hall. It's usually hot so we have to go inside. It's phenomenal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and how? At a very high level. How do you evaluate something like that? Do you have a grade sheet or a card that you're like evaluating certain movements or command giving? Like, what things are you actually looking at when those drill competitions are going on?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have a, you know I used when I was a drill instructor at Parris Island. I just used whatever year. So, like I got there in 15, so 16 when I did it for that summer, or 17. So 16 when I did it for that summer, or 17,. I contacted my buddies back at Parris Island and had them give me all their unit leader scorecards, and then which card you're going to get, because each card is different, one through six, and then you have indoor one through 10, whatever it is. So, yeah, there's a whole checklist, and what's great, though, is I give them to the unit leaders, to the platoon commanders, you know, a week in advance, so you know what you're going to get graded on.
Speaker 2:You can you know, basically, hb, it all heavy, barrel, it all right, like prepare yourself, and you can tell the plebs hey, this is what you know Gunny Abbott's going to be looking at, for this is what the inspectors are looking at, you know. You know your uniform's got to be clean. You're disciplined. Are you shaved? Is the female's hair good to go? Is you know your, your boot shined, like every little detail right, and then your rifle being cleaned, everything, um, and it goes in line in detail. So those are the score sheets that you know they get up front and it's. It gives them a sense of pride too, like, oh, all, right, now, I know. Now I know the why and I know what I'm getting graded on. Okay, we can do this Right.
Speaker 1:It gives them a more sense of pride and belonging 100%, 100%.
Speaker 1:So thank you for taking the time to explain all of this to us and again give people a high level.
Speaker 1:I think drill is one of those things for people with zero military background whatsoever like trying to comprehend what's going on is really confusing. So I appreciate you taking the time to help explain at least again the purpose of it and generally what's going on during police summer and help them understand. And, as we get ready to wrap this up, kind of the theme that I've wanted to bring back into Academy Insider is again understanding this idea that leadership matters right, leadership matters, but that you should never underestimate the impact you can make on someone and how quote unquote like easy leadership could be with simple actions right, like simple actions and how much that impacts people. And so I just wanted to turn this over to you, if you wanted to, if you had any stories or recollections on someone who made your Naval Academy journey or experience better, and just give you an opportunity to give a shout out and just talk about, you know, someone who was special and made a really positive impact on you during your time in Annapolis.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I will say there's many stories, but two that stand out right now. I remember, you know, just me being a brand new gunnery sergeant. I was still, you know, very quick off the mouth. Things used to bother me seeing a mid walking and chewing gum, their uniform jacked up. I just wanted to yell and scream Like that was my thing.
Speaker 1:I'm like. Why Like you're?
Speaker 2:getting free college. Like why can't you just abide by the rules and regs? But like then I look at myself, why can't I just abide by the rules and regs? But like then I look at myself, why can't I just abide by the rules and regs? Like there was so much stuff right, like, and I remember then colonel shay pulling, pulling me, and nadia sensing first, our sensing now aside and saying hey, they're a little bit different here. I mean she was academy 1991 I believe. Uh, grad, a little bit different here.
Speaker 2:Just give them a five minute correction. And i'm'm like what do you mean by that? And I got five minutes to correct a mid on, saying get the gum out of your mouth, like I'm just a hotheaded a-hole, right. But then she explained it in detail and like if you just take a, if you want to correct a midshipman and I use this in life now and it's, oh my gosh, it's worked tenfold Just give them a five-minute correction. Meaning get down to their level, tell them why it's wrong what they're doing. Maybe tell them the instruction where they can look it up, and then tell them the higher purpose of why it might look bad or it might be wrong. And then it's a conversation you can interact, ask them about themselves, their families, like anything, right? So that's one lesson that I think that was phenomenal there. And then I'm going to give a shout out to Star Steel. I don't know if you remember her, star Steel. Do you remember her?
Speaker 1:I'm sorry yeah.
Speaker 2:No, it's fine. I'll never forget she was a pilot, she's, she's out now. Um, she married Andrew, Uh, um. So, and I wanted to say her name because this, this moment, meant so much to me. We still talk to this day and I tell her the story all the time.
Speaker 2:So I, I had messed up teaching, Um, I don't know if it was plebe summer detail in the morning doing something, or if it was regular, regular academic year drill. Whatever it was, we're in T-court and I used the word retarded, which is a horrible word to use, Right, and I didn't, didn't think anything of it, I was like I don't even know the context, I used it. But I was so proud of her because I've always told anyone I ever lead. If you have a problem with something I did, just as I do with anyone else, I will come to you like a grown man or a woman. I will address the issue with tact and professionalism and we will work it out. Most midshipmen were scared, right, Because gunneries aren't been in for a while, been to combat, Don't want to do that, Don't want to tell her she's wrong.
Speaker 2:But again, the bond that I had with the brigade at the time and during those years were phenomenal. Um, and I remember at the end of it, star came up to me and she said I don't appreciate that you use that word. You know my sister has Down syndrome. Um, you know, I've been around that word my whole life and it's just, it's not professional. I mean, she went on this whole thing and I'm like I had like tears in my eyes but I was so proud of her for coming up and telling me and I was like that's amazing. I never used that word since that day, Like it might slip up and like little little things here and there, but like I consciously do not use that word anymore. And the, the tact and professionalism that Star had that day was phenomenal. I was like I'm so proud of you, Like I'll never forget that moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so cool. I love that and I love that you put a mix of again, both Colonel Shea, I guess, now General Shea, right, it comes from all levels of the Naval Academy. I think that's what makes the place also extremely cool, right, is you could have you'd have a now two star providing you real insight in this life. Um, you know, life advice and leadership advice and insight. And then you have the impact of a midshipman, right, just this, this high character, high, uh, the Brit bravery, individual Cause.
Speaker 1:Again, I do really want to make this clear as amazing as as Beth is, gunnery sergeants are scary I don't know how else to put it, but they can be scary at times. So to quite literally go up and say that, that takes some internal fortitude to actually go up and to be motivated to act on that. So that's very, that's very cool, right, and I think again, I think, at large, this episode has been a really great insight into the foundations of drill and everything of the sort. So I really appreciate you taking the time to explain some of this stuff to all of us. But thank you so much for joining us today. I really, really appreciate it. But thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 2:I really, really appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely. If I can say one last thing, what I used, to say to the plebes and they didn't really understand it.
Speaker 2:They didn't understand it. I'd say to the plebes and the brigade is drill is life and life is good, right, drill is life and life is good. At that moment. And again, if you take that in anything you're doing in your life that maybe you don't want to do, if you say it's good, you buy into it. Be where you are, life is good, right, it's all a mindset, it's perspective, it's your attitude and your effort towards you, put towards everything, and that's what it's about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I love it. Well, thank you so much. Thanks for that amazing part. Parting, parting, invite parting, insight and advice. Appreciate you more than you'll ever know and I'm sure we'll see you back here on Academy Insider at some point, so I appreciate you making this happen, thank you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks a lot, grant Take care.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Academy Insider Podcast. I really hope you liked it, enjoyed it and learned something during this time. If you did, please feel free to like and subscribe or leave a comment about the episode. We really appreciate to hear your feedback about everything and continue to make Academy Insider an amazing service that guides, serves and supports midshipmen, future midshipmen and their families. Thank you.